Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
As an atheist, I find creation probably as absurd as you all do. But I am noticing a trend among atheists, that I very much dislike.
Allow me to give a little background. I was talking to my friend Steve, the other day, a friend I made over the internet. He is an atheist like me, and for a month we were chatting about our dislike of organized religion, until yesterday he told me basically something along these lines.
"Yep, christianity is a lie, it's just a cover up they use to hide their existence. I was abducted by them once."
To which I fell off my chair in disbelief. Because a fellow atheist, such as myself, believes strongly in alien abductions.
Sadly this is not the first I have seen of this. It would appear that a VERY large number of "Atheists", believe in things such as aliens, crazy government conspiracies, wizardry, out of body experiences, shapeshifting, and leagues more.
While belief in these does not technically render one a "theist", per say, it entirely defeats the purpose of taking the rationale and logical high ground when arguing against creationists.
So my question is this, to the atheists here. How can other atheists argue FOR evolution, and AGAINST creationism using evidence as their sole reason for believing in one or the other, if they believe in any of the above.
Now I am not saying that most, if not all of the ones here believe in any such of the above, I certainly do not. But there is a growing trend among atheists who believe in things that require faith and nothing else, and then criticize others for doing the same.
I criticize people of faith, because I have absolutely none. But I am getting annoyed by seeing many atheists in my personal life (and especially on OTHER internet forums) argue pro evolution whilst believing in things like magic, UFO's, ghosts (another big one), telepathy ect...
I'm a card carrying member of the James Randi Educational Foundation and long ago came to the realization that atheist =/= skeptic. There are atheists who are woos and there are religious believers who are skeptics.
Don't confuse the two.
__________________ (The Library of Alexandria) questioned the permanence of the stars, but did not question the justice of slavery - Carl Sagan in Cosmos
In the absence of proof, there's only the absence.
Join Date: 27th November 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,217
Blessings: 29,498
Reps: 2,160,465,330,633 (power: 0)
USincognito is absolutely right. To conflate atheism with rationalism is erroneous- The only requisite to being an atheist is to not believe in a god/s, and beyond that the world is open territory. Since atheism is a superclass equivalent to theism, it makes no claims except that single one about what anyone within it believes (just as theism makes no claims beyond those within it believing in god/s), and this leaves the ground open for crazy things. I would classify Raelians as atheists, I believe buddhism is atheism, and you can be a wiccan atheist, new age atheist, etc.
Out of all those, I like the Raelians the most. :-) Alas, their beliefs are as devoid of proof as any other religion, but their moral philosophy is rather nice. That said, the Raelians prove that you can be both a creationist and an atheist, showing that atheism does not instantly mean one is against creationism. Since creationism and atheism are not instantly opposed to each other (certain types of atheism are), you can have all shades of support or refusal of creationism within atheism.
USincognito is absolutely right. To conflate atheism with rationalism is erroneous- The only requisite to being an atheist is to not believe in a god/s, and beyond that the world is open territory. Since atheism is a superclass equivalent to theism, it makes no claims except that single one about what anyone within it believes (just as theism makes no claims beyond those within it believing in god/s), and this leaves the ground open for crazy things. I would classify Raelians as atheists, I believe buddhism is atheism, and you can be a wiccan atheist, new age atheist, etc.
Out of all those, I like the Raelians the most. :-) Alas, their beliefs are as devoid of proof as any other religion, but their moral philosophy is rather nice. That said, the Raelians prove that you can be both a creationist and an atheist, showing that atheism does not instantly mean one is against creationism. Since creationism and atheism are not instantly opposed to each other (certain types of atheism are), you can have all shades of support or refusal of creationism within atheism.
I did not say that any of these things mean that someone is not an atheist for believing in them, or following that way of life. Instead, what I tried to convey in my opening post, is that an atheist who tries to argue AGAINST creationism, and organized religion, while believing in magic, has stumbled over himself somewhere.
Really? Cause I haven't noticed that trend at all. Let me repeat that I haven't seen ANY EXAMPLES of that. I don't give much time to the moonbats, but what time I do spare them, their religious beliefs have never come out as atheistic.
Now, you can be moon-bat crazy and be atheist, sure. But you'll have a hard time rationally argueing reason if you think little green men levitated your trailer one night.
Furthermore:
I criticize people of faith, because I have absolutely none.
That's really not a good reason. If anything I'd say you're the one making us look bad.
Last edited by dewaddict84; 27th September 2009 at 06:52 PM.
Reason: Wow, some really bad grammer in there.
As an atheist, I find creation probably as absurd as you all do. But I am noticing a trend among atheists, that I very much dislike.
Allow me to give a little background. I was talking to my friend Steve, the other day, a friend I made over the internet. He is an atheist like me, and for a month we were chatting about our dislike of organized religion, until yesterday he told me basically something along these lines.
"Yep, christianity is a lie, it's just a cover up they use to hide their existence. I was abducted by them once."
To which I fell off my chair in disbelief. Because a fellow atheist, such as myself, believes strongly in alien abductions.
Sadly this is not the first I have seen of this. It would appear that a VERY large number of "Atheists", believe in things such as aliens, crazy government conspiracies, wizardry, out of body experiences, shapeshifting, and leagues more.
While belief in these does not technically render one a "theist", per say, it entirely defeats the purpose of taking the rationale and logical high ground when arguing against creationists.
So my question is this, to the atheists here. How can other atheists argue FOR evolution, and AGAINST creationism using evidence as their sole reason for believing in one or the other, if they believe in any of the above.
Now I am not saying that most, if not all of the ones here believe in any such of the above, I certainly do not. But there is a growing trend among atheists who believe in things that require faith and nothing else, and then criticize others for doing the same.
I criticize people of faith, because I have absolutely none. But I am getting annoyed by seeing many atheists in my personal life (and especially on OTHER internet forums) argue pro evolution whilst believing in things like magic, UFO's, ghosts (another big one), telepathy ect...
I would love your thoughts on this matter.
I do believe in aliens, I do not believe that they have come to earth or even know of our existance, as far as the others, not so much.
Believing in aliens is not so hard. The universe is incerdibly vast, and intelligent life has a nonzero chance of occuring (our existence proves that much). Statistically there MUST be other life out there.
Abductions though? Bollocks. Easily explained by sleep paralysis and a minor hallucination.
__________________ On "illegal" immigration: "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..." -The Statue of Liberty
On the alleged connection between Hitler and Atheism:
"For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties." -Hitler, Mein Kampf, Volume II, Chapter X
Danth's Law: "If you have to insist that you've won an internet argument, you've probably lost badly."
Out of all those, I like the Raelians the most. :-) Alas, their beliefs are as devoid of proof as any other religion, but their moral philosophy is rather nice.
Ya --- I can imagine.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
From 1991 to 2007, the official Raëlian symbol in Europe and America did not have the original swastika, but Raël, founder and leader of the Raëlian Movement decided to make the original symbol, the Star of David intertwined with a swastika, the only official symbol of the Raelian Movement worldwide.
...
Originally Posted by ragarth
That said, the Raelians prove that you can be both a creationist and an atheist, showing that atheism does not instantly mean one is against creationism.
Linear Mode
