I understand because that extra bit appears in Luke but not in Matthew. And sure, if you want to consider to "repent" something that you do in relation to God only, I can understand that.
Perhaps in relation to each other, we could say that we are "sorry" and ask for "forgiveness" for any wrongs we do.
__________________ Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us.
(++Desmond Tutu)
No. Do you know anything of the OT "fathers of the faith"? King David...God's favored-one...presumably had sex with all kinds of concubines and slaves. He wasn't punished for that...he was blessed with that (spoils of war). He was punished for having sex with a married women (committing adultery). Her name was Bathsheba. He then proceeded to have her husband killed. Hello. How about Samson? He had sex with a prostitute...but no word of condemnation was spoken about that. There are more examples from Genesis...fahgetaboutit. So...I guess if the Church were to implement that unGodly rule...the Church would kick out the pre-adultery God-adored King David...and a majority of the "fathers of the faith"...
CC
Argument from silence. There's plenty of argument against fornication.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don't mess with Yoda!
"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done.""
-C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce (emphasis mine)
"You must be imaginative, strong-hearted. You must try things that may not work, and you must not let anyone define your limits because of where you come from. Your only limit is your soul."
-Chef at the beginning of Ratatouille
Absolutely! How in the world can those left feel morally superior if they don't? In the end of course there will only be one or two people left in the church once all the sins/sinners have been identified and given the boot...but those one or two people can sleep better at night knowing they are better liars then everyone else.
Absolutely! How in the world can those left feel morally superior if they don't? In the end of course there will only be one or two people left in the church once all the sins/sinners have been identified and given the boot...but those one or two people can sleep better at night knowing they are better liars then everyone else.
What do I mean when I refer to the term 'living in sin'?
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don't mess with Yoda!
"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done.""
-C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce (emphasis mine)
"You must be imaginative, strong-hearted. You must try things that may not work, and you must not let anyone define your limits because of where you come from. Your only limit is your soul."
-Chef at the beginning of Ratatouille
It's your definition so you will have to tell me the answer to that. Be aware my response went beyond sex.
And so did my question. It's not my term, it comes from the Bible. Perhaps you should try to understand it before you bash those who follow it. Living in sin refers to those who deliberately sin without repentance afterwards- they don't care that they sinned, and they are caught in it- addicted, in a manner of speaking. People who do that and call themselves Christians are to be kicked out because of the obvious hypocrisy, not simply because they sinned.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don't mess with Yoda!
"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done.""
-C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce (emphasis mine)
"You must be imaginative, strong-hearted. You must try things that may not work, and you must not let anyone define your limits because of where you come from. Your only limit is your soul."
-Chef at the beginning of Ratatouille
And so did my question. It's not my term, it comes from the Bible. Perhaps you should try to understand it before you bash those who follow it. Living in sin refers to those who deliberately sin without repentance afterwards- they don't care that they sinned, and they are caught in it- addicted, in a manner of speaking. People who do that and call themselves Christians are to be kicked out because of the obvious hypocrisy, not simply because they sinned.
Read my other post on living in repentance. All christians are hyporcits in some way because they are human. It's not necessarily a bad thing until you try to insist that they aren't.
People are sad and broken. If that is why they need god then that is why they should be in church and it's not up to other sad and broken people to pick and choose their pew mates.
Read my other post on living in repentance. All christians are hyporcits in some way because they are human. It's not necessarily a bad thing until you try to insist that they aren't.
That is untrue. A hypocrite is someone who knowingly, intentionally commits acts of sin and publicly claims otherwise.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don't mess with Yoda!
"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done.""
-C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce (emphasis mine)
"You must be imaginative, strong-hearted. You must try things that may not work, and you must not let anyone define your limits because of where you come from. Your only limit is your soul."
-Chef at the beginning of Ratatouille
That is untrue. A hypocrite is someone who knowingly, intentionally commits acts of sin and publicly claims otherwise.
What happens when someone is doing something and one believes its a sin and the other does not and they can both back up what they are saying. I think the area of sex, marriage and divorce is probably the greyest area of life in the bible. Someone could be having sexual relations with out a "marriage cerimony" but no such cerimony is outlined in the bible. Someone could divorce because their wife stopped putting out and they could argue that defrauding is equivalent to unfaithfulness they could also argue that exodus and duet make that same claim.
So then does it just become a peeing match between who has more "authortiy" or "rank" in the church and how long do you expect one to remain enlisted when people keep pulling rank?
I understand your argument when it comes to blatent things like stealing or killing or flagrant sexual escapades (one night stands at bars, etc) which could be considered orgies or fornication in its truest sense, drinking until you are passed out in a ditch, etc. How do you know when you have not crossed that line into becomming a lawyer or legalist.
Excommunication (or disfellowshipping), depending on your denomination, is a terrible and solemn thing and should never be done lightly. In my twenty years in the church and a little over ten years in ministry, I've only seen it done a handful of times.
The Bible gives us four situations where discipline (up to and including excommunication) is warranted:
1. Difficulties between members (Matt. 18:15-17).
2. Divisive or factious people causing divisions in the church (Rom. 16:17-18; Titus 3:9-11).
3. Immoral conduct; sins of the type mentioned in 1 Corinthians 5 such as incest, immorality, covetousness, idolatry, abusive speech, drunkenness, swindling, or idle busybodies who refuse to work and run around spreading dissension (1 Cor. 5:1, 11; 2 Thess. 3:10-15).
4. False teaching; erroneous teaching and views which concern the fundamentals of the faith and not lesser differences of interpretation (1 Tim. 1:20; 2 Tim. 2:17-18; also implied in Rev. 2:14-16; Phil. 3:2-3, 15-19; Rom. 16:17-18).
It also explains why church discipline is so important:
1. To bring glory to God and preserve the testimony of the church to the world. .
2. To restore, heal, and build up sinning believers (Matt. 18:15; 2 Thess. 3:14-15; Heb. 12:10-13; Gal. 6:1-2; Jam. 5:20).
3. To produce a healthy faith, one sound in doctrine (Tit. 1:13; 1 Tim. 1:19-20).
4. To win a soul to Christ, if the sinning person is only a professing Christian (2 Tim. 2:24-26).
5. To silence false teachers and their influence in the church (Tit. 1:10-11).
6. To set an example for the rest of the body and promote godly fear (1 Tim. 5:20).
7. To protect the church against the destructive consequences that occur when churches fail to carry out church discipline. A church that fails to exercise discipline experiences four losses:
a. The Loss of Purity: Church discipline is vital to the purity of the local body and its protection from moral decay and destructive doctrinal influences. Why? Because a little leaven leavens the entire lump (1 Cor. 5:6-7). Bad doctrine and accomodated sin always produce a “snowball” effect.
A good illustration of this is the Corinthian church which showed a lack of concern for purity. They neglected the responsibility to discipline and suffered as a result. Their insensitivity to one moral issue may have led to their compromise on other issues. The Corinthians engaged in lawsuits, misused their liberty, profaned the Lord’s Supper, neglected the primacy of love, failed to regulate the use of their gifts, and questioned the resurrection. Hence, the snowball effect.
b. The Loss of Power: Sin in the life of the church grieves the person of the Holy Spirit and quenches His power. If sin remains unchecked by the loving application of church discipline in a body of believers, the Holy Spirit must abandon such a church to its own carnal resources. The unavoidable result will be the loss of the Lord’s blessing until the sin is dealt with.
The defeat of Israel because of the sin of Achan in Joshua 7 illustrates the principle. This is just as true for the church today, especially when we know certain things exist but ignore them or simply look the other way because it is difficult to deal with or because it involves one of our friends and we do not want to risk causing problems in the relationship.
c. A church that refuses to practice church discipline will see its ministry decline. The church may want to grow and reach out and it may try all kinds of stop gap measures, promotional campaigns, and programs in an attempt to turn things around, but if there is sin in the camp, it will all be to no avail. See Revelation 2:5 and 3:16.
d. The Loss of Purpose: As His ambassadors to a lost and dying world, God has called the church to be a holy people, a people who, standing out as distinct from the world, proclaim the excellencies of the works of God in Christ (1 Pet. 1:14-16; 2:9-15). If this is to occur, we must be different from the world and church discipline helps us to both remember and maintain that purpose. One of the recurring judgments against the church today as demonstrated in various polls taken across the country is the fact there is little or no difference between the church and the secular world when it comes to attitudes, values, morals, and lifestyle. We have lost our sense of purpose.
Last edited by Bro_Sam; 29th September 2009 at 08:52 AM.
Linear Mode
