God is the judge on his soul not me but I am biblically commanded to discern and rebuke false teachers.
If you have heard this a million times then why do you doubt it?
there's nothing wrong with the timothy verse you posted by apostle paul.
Im talking about how you're quick to judge him. his preaching style is more about living an abundant life compared to shoving down the idea that you're full of sin and going to hell. the bible talks about prosperity plenty of times:
God is not selfish or stingy but "gives us richly all things to enjoy." (1 Timothy 6:17)
The blessing of the Lord makes one rich." (Proverbs 10:22)
Jesus Christ "became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich." (2 Corinthians 8:9)
this is exactly what osteen preaches. he's been preaching for 10 years and counting. there hasnt been any strange publicity or scandals involving him and his church so clearly he's doing something right.
Sorry, I am confused. What does he say that is false? I don't know him that well, except for some of his devtionals i think. I didn't even know people has a problem with him. I heard he was great. Could someone please explain?
I thought it suits this section cause he gets persecuted for being a genuine follower of Christ.
and Jeffz, if Joel really is a conman, dont you think his church would lose attendance? he cant deceive thousands of people like that year after year. the fact that his church has thrived this long proves he's a genuine follower of Christ.
why is it that anyone who does good tries to be put down. people even think usain bolt took steroids cause he's on top - no it was all hard work.
OhhhChung, I didn't call him a conman, but if you read the scriptures I quoted from you will see what God says. I do not think that He is intentially teaching wrong but I do not see him speaking the hard things of God. A preacher that is called by God and does not speak the truth that would cause a man, woman, boy or girl to have Godly sorrow is couching the word of God. It is no wonder that He has so many followers because most do not want to hear truth, they want to be lulled to sleep. Sound the Alarm!! wake up oh sleeper! For the kingdom of heaven is at hand,Tear your garments and fall down before almighty God and seek repentance, Ye must be born again.
Does he preach the message of the cross? For that is what a preacher should preach.
you dont have to judge somebody to see what kind of fruit they have. Just a thought. Also I don't really care for critics to much it seems their time cold be better spent
Being a good man isn't the same as being a sound teacher of the scriptures, and for some reason when I hear the word "church" mentioned I tend to expect sound doctrine from whoever is at the podium speaking. He is a good man (at least as far as any man can be good), but that doesn't make him a good teacher of God's word.
The question is not whether the man is good. But let's first recognize our own hypocrisy. If you are saying that to speak against what Joel O. is saying is judgment, then aren't you judging those who speak against Joel; when you speak against what they say about Joel?
Secondly. Truth is good WHEN IT IS USED TRUTHFULLY. Consider this: Someone is telling you of all the joy, and freedom, and mobility, and flexibility of owning a vehicle. They just go on and on non-stop. They tell you about all the features of current cars, etc. The problem is that they never tell you what is needed in order to actually get a car. They can deliver the story, but they can never actually deliver the keys.
Here is the point of the story. The person who talks forever about the grace of God, and never about the wrath of God, understands neither. You do not understand His grace until you really understand His wrath. You aren't grateful of being saved, until you truly understand what you have been saved from. I have one type of gratefulness if I think God has delivered me from debt and disease so that I can live my "Best Life Now". There is a whole other type of fiery gratefulness, and thanksgiving, and worship, and love that results from understanding that I was headed to a torment that our words cannot quantify...because of sin which my abominable heart chose time and time again...and also that this sin is so abominable that our words, again, cannot quantify. Notice how the "Gospel of God" and "righteousness of God" (Rom 1:16-17) stands back-to-back with the "wrath of God" (Rom 1:18-32). These two have been illustrated in tandem, and using such language because the "Gospel" or good news is only truly understood (to fallen man) if we know what the bad news should have otherwise been. As the Lord Himself tells us in Luke 7:47 that They who are forgiven much will love much; but they who are forgiven little will love little. 'paraphrased'
damn this is what Im talking about though. why cant christians and non-believers just look at him in the most positive light? after all, everything he utters is positive. just cause he doesnt talk about sin and hell doesnt mean he's a false prophet. my mom says he's a genuine follower of God, and believe me my mom is as spiritual as you can get. she says he's genuine cause she looks at him positively, not negatively.
by the way, look forward to his next book It's Your Time.
Because that is not why Jesus came. If that were so, He would have told us we could all go to heaven because we are "good" people and that whatever we believe is Ok with him.
He didn't. He told us to be watchful for false prophets in the end times. Osteen does not preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He preaches a feel-good, don't talk about sin because everyone needs to feel fluffy, warm and fuzzy gospel.
The truth is, the road is narrow and the gate is small. Most of those who profess to be Christian, pastors too, will be denied entrance to heaven. Why? Because they profess with their mouth, but do not do so in their heart.
We are not judging his salvation, we are judging his fruit. A bad tree cannot produce good fruit. If the fruit is rotten, the tree is rotten. Every Christian needs to meet the "test" to know if they are a true Christian as John states in 1 John. If you fail the tests, you are not saved.
You cannot preach salvation without preaching sin. You cannot teach prosperiety without teaching suffering and trials.
End Times are approaching fast (they are here already), those who are stuck with this feel-good fuzzy gospel are going to be ill-equipped to deal with the persecution that lies ahead for us all. There will be no prosperiety, they will take everything you own, including your bible, home and job. You see, the Gospel was never meant to make your life on earth easy, prosperous and fun, it was meant to save you from the fiery destruction to come. The Gospel is meant to Glorify God.
Osteen preaches that we should be satisfying our earthly cravings for things by using Gods Word instead of seeking to Glorify God. It isn't about us...it is about Him...ALL about Him.
There are blessings of God, but people always quote them out of context, as if there is some magical words you need to say for him to "bless" you with a BMW.
You quote 1 Timothy:
God is not selfish or stingy but "gives us richly all things to enjoy." (1 Timothy 6:17)
But you left out the preceeding verse:
Command those who are rich in this present world to not be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God
The blessing of the Lord makes one rich." (Proverbs 10:22)
Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death (Proverbs 11 4)
Jesus Christ "became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich." (2 Corinthians 8:9)
You need to read all of 2 Corinthians 8. You get a different point of view as the single verse is out of context. Paul is saying that one being rich, while other brothers are poor is not good. To share your wealth with your brother in need so that all are equal. He says "give yourselves first to the Lord, then to your brother according to God's will"
__________________ Yerushalayim shalom shaalu
"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; May those who love her prosper." Ps 122:6
Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words. - St Francis of Assisi
Last edited by Bethshaya; 15th November 2009 at 09:07 PM.
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