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26th September 2009, 03:43 PM
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- Thermodynamics vs. Evolutionism -
The article is long. Much longer than is should be, the question is:
"Does Evolution violate the laws of Thermodynamics?"
The answer is: Since earth is an open system the Second Law of Thermodynamics is not applicable in proving or disproving the Theory of Evolution.
This isn't debatable, the law ceases to be a law in an open system.
Where the article went wrong(Obvious lies): Ordinarily the second law is stated for isolated [closed] systems, but the second law applies equally well to open systems
Here's the moment in time where the author went wrong. He changes from the Second Law to a null hypothesis and rambles on for paragraphs about said null hypothesis.
This statement is saying is that the entropy of a closed system or an open system cannot decrease. Which turns a very consistant observation(Second Law) into an entirely null hypothesis. In short, the “open system” argument fails to adequately justify evolutionist speculation in the face of the second law.
No it doesn't. It only fails in the face of a bait and switch argument where the writer went from the Second Law to a null hypothesis. Most highly respected evolutionist scientists (some of whom have been quoted above with care—and within context) acknowledge this fact, many even acknowledging the problem it causes the theory to which they subscribe.
The quotes were about the Second Law not the null hypothesis.
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27th September 2009, 06:50 AM
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Reps: 18,604,695,596,698 (power: 18,604,695,606) | | Originally Posted by Biologist  Where the article went wrong(Obvious lies): Ordinarily the second law is stated for isolated [closed] systems, but the second law applies equally well to open systems
Here's the moment in time where the author went wrong. He changes from the Second Law to a null hypothesis and rambles on for paragraphs about said null hypothesis.
That quote isn’t from the article’s author, it’s from Dr. John Ross in Chemical and Engineering News. John Ross isn’t a creationist.
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27th September 2009, 08:38 AM
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Reps: 75,142,064,124,300,000 (power: 75,142,064,124,315) | | What the second law of thermodynamic says is that heat (thermo-) will not spontaneously flow (-dynamics) from a cooler object to a warmer one. That's it.
Now if you unplug your refrigerator, you can demonstrate this. Heat will flow from the warmer room to the cooler refrigerator. You have made the refrigerator-room into a closed system.
If you plug the refrigerator back in, you have made the refigerator-room back into an open system, because your are importing power from outside the system to pump heat from the cooler refrigerator to the warmer room. You have done work on the system.
Notice that none of this has anything to do with evolution. 
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27th September 2009, 08:50 AM
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Reps: 272,102,686,467,179 (power: 272,102,686,475) | | Originally Posted by Gracchus What the second law of thermodynamic says is that heat (thermo-) will not spontaneously flow (-dynamics) from a cooler object to a warmer one. That's it.
Now if you unplug your refrigerator, you can demonstrate this. Heat will flow from the warmer room to the cooler refrigerator. You have made the refrigerator-room into a closed system.
If you plug the refrigerator back in, you have made the refigerator-room back into an open system, because your are importing power from outside the system to pump heat from the cooler refrigerator to the warmer room. You have done work on the system.
Notice that none of this has anything to do with evolution.
thats what you get from the american education system, people with very little understanding of the fact that the second law has to do with a closed system.
i always liked the example of a bathtub of water in a locked room, the heat from the water moves to the colder air until the heat evens out between the two.
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27th September 2009, 09:53 AM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Gracchus Now if you unplug your refrigerator, you can demonstrate this. Heat will flow from the warmer room to the cooler refrigerator. You have made the refrigerator-room into a closed system.
In Genesis 1, the refrigerator (earth) was plugged into another power Source than the sun.
When the Fall occurred, the refrigerator was unplugged from this divine Socket, and plugged into a secondary socket (the sun).
Thus, the refrigerator room (solar system) went from an open system to a closed system.
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27th September 2009, 12:33 PM
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Reps: 596,997,442,336,088 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET In Genesis 1, the refrigerator (earth) was plugged into another power Source than the sun.
When the Fall occurred, the refrigerator was unplugged from this divine Socket, and plugged into a secondary socket (the sun).
Thus, the refrigerator room (solar system) went from an open system to a closed system.
The solar system gets energy from the entire galaxy, not just the sun. Try again  |
27th September 2009, 02:09 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by azmurath The solar system gets energy from the entire galaxy, not just the sun. Try again
Um --- I don't think this galaxy supplies enough energy to run the solar system with enough power to run the earth.
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27th September 2009, 02:25 PM
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Reps: 596,997,442,336,088 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET Um --- I don't think this galaxy supplies enough energy to run the solar system with enough power to run the earth.
You would be surprised. The galaxy puts out enough energy to keep the interstellar medium above absolute freezing, that is an enormous amount of energy. Besides, the sun providing us energy makes us an OPEN system, not a closed system. |
27th September 2009, 02:37 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by azmurath Besides, the sun providing us energy makes us an OPEN system, not a closed system.
I'm not talking about just the earth being powered by an outside source (the sun).
I'm talking about the entire solar system. Originally Posted by AV1611VET Thus, the refrigerator room (solar system) went from an open system to a closed system.
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27th September 2009, 02:40 PM
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