Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
Welcome to the Physical and Life Sciences section of CF.com.
Where not everyone blindly believes in nonsensical, ancient myths, although a few people do, and everyone else here laughs at them.
90% of human beings on this planet believe in God. And, if you're laughing at people instead of accepting them then that says a lot about your character. It means you have no humility or respect for other people.
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So? Does that somehow prohibit others from asking creationists and TEs to show that their claims are reasonable and true?
Here we have someone apparently claiming that her God somehow directed evolution, yet when I asked her to show that her God is real, she claims there is no evidence for her God and that it cannot be detected, proven or even defined in any way. It is, by all appearances, imaginary. So how did an imaginary God direct evolution? If it is imaginary, then the subject of this thread is a pointless question. She may as well ask, “Does Santa care about the colour of his sleigh?”
Of course Santa cares what color his sleigh is. Are you crazy?
Let me say this, I was a member over at The Raving Atheist Forum for quite awhile. RA himself even converted to Christianity and he's the most hard core atheist I knew. There is evidence but you have to have an open mind.
Everything atheists say is a parrot of other atheists. I haven't heard anything original.
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Last edited by loveiseverywhere; 24th September 2009 at 02:55 PM.
90% of human beings on this planet believe in God. And, if you're laughing at people instead of accepting them then that says a lot about your character. It means you have no humility or respect for other people.
Actually, it's nearer 55% (about half of which being Christian, and another half of them being either Islamic or Jewish.)
And it seems as though no two of those people can even agree completely as to what God is.
So they all believe in God, but they all believe God is something different to everyone else who believes in him.
To think that a poll can be both accurate and only leave 10% of "human beings on this planet" for every single non-religion, or other religion in the world, is absurd.
One of they key books I read that led me to my decision (among other things) to follow Christ was The Language of God by Francis Collins. If you don't know who Francis Collins is, he was the leader of the Human Genome Project.
Another was Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth Miller.
As to DNA being evidence for a Creator:
All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. In every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program. As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billions of these letters in every human cell.
Just as you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.
Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.
Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.
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Last edited by loveiseverywhere; 24th September 2009 at 05:15 PM.
Everyone operates on assumptions and works from them, even scientists.
Yes, but there is a difference in the validity of assumptions under which people operate. For example, I assume that the Sun will appear over the horizon again tomorrow, but that is based on knowledge of the mechanism involved and plenty of past evidence that it will occur. Contrast that with the assumption that a God exists for which there is no evidence and, according to the original poster, it cannot be detected or even defined. You have to wonder; if her God cannot even be defined then what is it she believes in?
Although I'd be intrigued if you could provide absolute proof of the assumption of abiogenesis, for example?
No scientist claims to know how life began on this planet. Sure, there are hypotheses, but no scientist claims to actually know how it happened. We know it did happen because the fact that life exists is evidence of that, but we don’t know how it happened. Of course, creationists do claim to know how it happened despite a complete lack of sound evidence supporting their belief.
Does not follow. Most believers have personal experience of God.
Please explain how someone can have a personal experience of something that is completely undetectable without simply imagining it.
Because the last segment does not follow, I'll return to this part when you've addressed that first.
The subject of this thread is, Does God Care if You're an Evolutionist or Creationist? If the subject had been Does Zeus Care if You're an Evolutionist or Creationist? or Does Santa Care if You're an Evolutionist or Creationist? would there be any point to it? Would you just go along with the assumption that Santa is real and have a serious discussion about what he cares about? It is pointless to discuss the feelings of an imaginary entity.
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A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. – David Hume 1711-1776
Of course you are now that you’ve convinced yourself you will never really die. Religious believers constantly affirm their underlying insecurity with their incessant talk about, obsession with and desire for being saved. It is the insecure who constantly yearn to be saved. You even felt the need to mention being saved in your OP.
My favorite line is when Palmer Joss asks Ellie,
"Do you love your Father?"
"Yes, of course." replied Ellie.
"Prove it."
And if Ellie’s words and actions toward her father provide no evidence at all that she loves him, should Palmer credulously believe Ellie loves her father just because she says so? This argument from religious believers has always amused me. People provide evidence that they love one another with their words and actions. If there were no evidence that someone loves another person then would you still think that they do just because they say so? One could be forgiven for thinking you would be credulous to do so. If there is no evidence that your God is real and its existence cannot be proven or even be detected then would you still believe it is real just because a compilation of unverified stories written by unknown authors says so?
You say your God cannot even be defined so what is it you believe in?
It appears that all you are doing with your claims that your God cannot be detected or defined is trying to protect your unsubstantiated beliefs from examination.
Originally Posted by loveiseverywhere
There is evidence but you have to have an open mind.
This contradicts your previous statement that there is no evidence or did you mean that there is just no sound, objective evidence? It certainly seems likely that you used unsound, subjective evidence to convince yourself that your God is real. However, when I see the sort of evidence religious believers present then to say I have to have an open mind means I have to be credulous.
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A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. – David Hume 1711-1776
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