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23rd September 2009, 10:45 PM
|  | Theistic Evolutionist / Ex-Atheist
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Reps: 1,211,434,525,818 (power: 1,211,434,531) | | Originally Posted by 3sigma  If anyone can prove beyond reasonable doubt that your God is real then I will change my mind about it, as you did, apparently. You weren’t just insecure enough to want to believe the comforting stories and credulous enough to imagine they were true, were you? Show me the sound, objective evidence that proved to you beyond reasonable doubt that your God is real.
There is no such thing. God cannot be defined or proven. God is beyond the detection of Scientific instruments. It is an intuitive process that one goes through. It cannot be explained, it must be experienced. It must be felt.
If you sincerely look for Him, you will find him. He's not hiding.
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23rd September 2009, 11:43 PM
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Reps: 241,692,970,520,611 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by loveiseverywhere God cannot be defined or proven. God is beyond the detection of Scientific instruments. It is an intuitive process that one goes through. It cannot be explained, it must be experienced. It must be felt.
What you are describing is something that isn’t real; it lacks factual reality and exists only in imagination. You are describing something that is imaginary.
If your God cannot be defined then you cannot even say what it is you believe in. If your God cannot be proven or even detected then there is no justification for believing it is real. If your God cannot be explained, but can only be experienced or felt then you are basing your belief on emotion rather than reason. So it appears that you are insecure enough to want to believe the comforting religious stories and credulous enough to imagine they are true. |
23rd September 2009, 11:48 PM
|  | SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by 3sigma If your God cannot be defined then you cannot even say what it is you believe in. If your God cannot be proven or even detected then there is no justification for believing it is real. If your God cannot be explained, but can only be experienced or felt then you are basing your belief on emotion rather than reason. So it appears that you are insecure enough to want to believe the comforting religious stories and credulous enough to imagine they are true.
Like abiogenesis?
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23rd September 2009, 11:55 PM
|  | God: The Ultimate Placebo
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Reps: 391,657,471,571,023,040 (power: 391,657,471,571,037) | | Originally Posted by loveiseverywhere There is no such thing. God cannot be defined or proven. God is beyond the detection of Scientific instruments. It is an intuitive process that one goes through. It cannot be explained, it must be experienced. It must be felt.
If you sincerely look for Him, you will find him. He's not hiding.
You're assuming that 3sigma has not sincerely looked. And, to extrapolate further, you're assuming that no current atheist has sincerely looked. Considering that just as you went from atheist to Christian, many Christians have become atheists, their sincere searches as Christians amounted to nothing in the end.
And perhaps God cannot be detected through scientific instruments, but his effects surely could. A greater rate of cancer recovery amongst Christians. Christians significantly less likely to die in car accidents. If God answers prayers, even just one percent of them, then that would be statistically evident as a difference between Christians and everyone else.
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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams
"Skaloopdidit" - Keeping Skaloop as the first cause until science can rule him out.
"I'd be a theist if it weren't for God." - Me
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24th September 2009, 12:06 AM
| | SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Skaloop Considering that just as you went from atheist to Christian, many Christians have become atheists, their sincere searches as Christians amounted to nothing in the end.
Ya --- in other words, God was good enough to save them when they cried out to Him at one time; but then, since He didn't start playing the role of divine butler, suddenly He becomes non-existent.
Even after they, as Hebrews 6 puts it: - were once enlightened
- tasted of the heavenly gift
- made partakers of the Holy Ghost
- tasted the good word of God
- and the powers to come
Anything that can't be found in a microscope, telescope, or grow in a petri dish isn't worth their time; is it?
__________________ GOD SAID IT -- THAT SETTLES IT
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24th September 2009, 12:12 AM
| | God: The Ultimate Placebo
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Reps: 391,657,471,571,023,040 (power: 391,657,471,571,037) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET Like abiogenesis?
We don't say that abiogenesis can't be defined or that it can't be "proven", though. It has been defined to some degree, but even if not, we're still not saying it can't, just that it hasn't.
Quite different than the previous claim about God.
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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams
"Skaloopdidit" - Keeping Skaloop as the first cause until science can rule him out.
"I'd be a theist if it weren't for God." - Me
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24th September 2009, 12:14 AM
| | SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Skaloop Quite different than the previous claim about God.
Ya --- God is real --- abiogenesis is not.
__________________ GOD SAID IT -- THAT SETTLES IT
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24th September 2009, 12:16 AM
| | God: The Ultimate Placebo
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Reps: 391,657,471,571,023,040 (power: 391,657,471,571,037) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET Ya --- in other words, God was good enough to save them when they cried out to Him at one time; but then, since He didn't start playing the role of divine butler, suddenly He becomes non-existent.
Even after they, as Hebrews 6 puts it: - were once enlightened
- tasted of the heavenly gift
- made partakers of the Holy Ghost
- tasted the good word of God
- and the powers to come
Anything that can't be found in a microscope, telescope, or grow in a petri dish isn't worth their time; is it?
So someone searching sincerely isn't enough, then? Who are you to say that they merely wanted a "divine butler"? If a sincere, honest, truthful search doesn't work, what does that say about its effectiveness?
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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams
"Skaloopdidit" - Keeping Skaloop as the first cause until science can rule him out.
"I'd be a theist if it weren't for God." - Me
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24th September 2009, 12:19 AM
| | SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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| | Join Date: 18th June 2006 Location: United States
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Skaloop So someone searching sincerely isn't enough, then?
God isn't the One Who's lost.
And besides, I'm talking about someone who already got saved --- then later turned their back on Him because He didn't jump through hoops for them.
__________________ GOD SAID IT -- THAT SETTLES IT
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24th September 2009, 12:22 AM
| | God: The Ultimate Placebo
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| | Join Date: 10th May 2006 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 8,384
Blessings: 52,662,929
Reps: 391,657,471,571,023,040 (power: 391,657,471,571,037) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET Ya --- God is real --- abiogenesis is not.
Irrelevant. We were talking about definitions and proof. Abiogenesis has or could have them. God cannot.
Secondary question; is God a form of life?
__________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams
"Skaloopdidit" - Keeping Skaloop as the first cause until science can rule him out.
"I'd be a theist if it weren't for God." - Me
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