I realize that all Orthodox may not be like the three I have had contact with. So I'm wondering what is your opinion of Protestants? Are they cultists? Seperated brothers? Or brothers in the Lord?
I realize that all Orthodox may not be like the three I have had contact with. So I'm wondering what is your opinion of Protestants? Are they cultists? Seperated brothers? Or brothers in the Lord?
LST
We know where the Church is, only God knows everyone who is in it. Various heterodox groups vary with how close or far to being orthodox they may or may not be.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Troparion - Tone 4
Commanders of the heavenly hosts, we who are unworthy beseech you, by your prayers encompass us beneath the wings of your immaterial glory, and faithfully preserve us who fall down and cry to you: “Deliver us from all harm, for you are the commanders of the powers on high!”
Holy Archangel Michael, pray to God for me.
"It's later than you think. Hasten therefore, to do the work of God." ~ Fr. Seraphim Rose
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I've been told that the OC says that the Son proceeded from the Father and the Holy Spirit proceeded from the Son. I'm not sure of the OC teaching as to the nature of the Trinity. Comments?
A posting I made in the Wesleyan area here on CF was copied and pasted into a thread in the Baptist area and renamed "I Don't Sin" and it started an interesting debate, but since I'm not a Baptist I was "not allowed" to respond and when I did my responses were deleted. So I moved it here!
This is the original posting I made. "I was a born again only Christian for 33 years and yet I still loved sin and in those years I sinned thousands and thousands of times. Everything from sexual sin, to drunkeness, lust, greed, theft, extreme anger, cursing pride and other sins I'm ashamed to admit. There are millions of born again only Christians living in defeat. Victory over sin as found in 1 Cor 10:13 is just a dream for them (as it was for me for 33 years.) If you doubt me check out the pornography forums here on this site and read about the addictions to porno and sex these born again only Christians still have as I did for 33 years. If you need scriptural proof that born again Christians still sin frequently read 1 Corinthians and see what carnality born again only Christians are capable of. Romans 7 would be another chapter to show how powerless the born again only Christian is against sin.
Being born again is just the first step toward defeating the sinful nature found within us. There is at least one more step in the Christian's life that must be taken before the Christian will have 100% victory over sin."
To set the record straight from the outset, you can easily see I never made any statement in that posting that I don't sin any longer. There is a teaser that one will have 100% victory over sin however, but I never said I had arrived at that point (but I'm pretty close!) So lets start there.
Most of us are familiar with hyperbole. There are several instances of it in the scriptures, one of which is found in John 21:25, "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written." Now that would be a lot of books! My 100% comment was hyperbole, but actually it is not too far off. Would you like to go from sinning 25 times a day to 25 times a year? Read on.
So the question is can a sinner have 100% victory over sin? No. A sinner can only do one thing and that is sin. Sinners cannot "do" righteousness because they have none, so sinners will never have any victory over sin. So that begs the question are born again Christians sinners? Or is the born again Christian a saint? We are called "saint(s)" 61 times in the NT. In Luke 5:32 Jesus said "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (see also Luke 15:7.) The righteous are not sinners according to these passages. Then Jesus in the very next passage (5:33) contrasts the difference between the righteous and sinners when He said "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same."
Prior to Pentecost the disciples were a bunch are bumbling powerless men who sinned on at least two occasions. See Luke 9:46; the sin of pride, Mark 9:29; the sin of prayerlessness, but after Pentecost the only sin that is recorded of any disciple is where Peter refused to eat with Gentiles (Gal 2:12.) I assume if there were other sins that they had committed they would be mentioned but they are not so by the silence of the scriptures we can assume they didn't sin any longer. As we all know the bible doesn't sugar coat anyone's sin especially God's own children. So what was the difference between the disciples of the gospels and the disciples from Acts chapter 2 and on? The infilling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives us power over sin. In fact according to one passage we cannot sin! 1 John 3:9, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 John 5:18, "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him." We have, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, absolute power over the evil one. Jesus prayed in John 17:15 "My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one." 1 John 5:14-15 says "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us-whatever we ask-we know that we have what we asked of him." Does not God want us to be free from the power of sin? Have we asked God to deliver us from the evil one? 2 Thess 3:3, "But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen and protect you from the evil one." We are told twice that we "have overcome the evil one" in 1 John 2:13 and 2:14.
So it appears to be a matter of belief. If you are absolutely convinced in your heart that you are still a sinner, you will sin because that is what sinners do. But if you are absolutely convinced in your heart that you have been imputed with the very righteousness of God Himself, and you know you are a child of God, and the Holy Spirit has absolute reign in your heart, you will live a life that is virtually free of sin. "For as [a man] thinketh in his heart, so is he." Prov 23:7. So what do you think?
LST 1154
Greetings, very good point: I believe that it could be agreed upon that no human has ever lived that was totally free from the potential to commit some sin up to the time of departure. The extent of a holy life surrendered to God varies from one child of God to the next. Yes I believe many of God's children are controlled by a besetting sin or sins. The community of the local church is important in support of brothers and sisters struggling with addictions and secret sins and we with them are in need of prayer to guard against the world, the flesh and the devil.
So the question is can a sinner have 100% victory over sin? No.
Two things. Generally, I agree with the above statement for most people throughout history. However, I believe that some devout people throughout history have achieved this. Naturally speaking, you are of course correct. But let us not deny the supernatural power of grace to transform us.
Second, it is interesting that you believe no living person then completely conquers the tendency to sin. Do you believe such a soul will be permitted to enter heaven with this blemish, or will that defect be purged away when the soul passes from earth to heaven?
There seem to be a few deviations from the way John put it:
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:5-10
What differences do you perceive between John and the OP?
__________________ "... not an unconcerned sitting of God in heaven, from which He merely observes the things that are done in the world; but that all-active and all-concerned seatedness on His throne above, by which He governs the world which He Himself hath made." John Calvin
To us, O LORD, belongs open shame, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against you.
A posting I made in the Wesleyan area here on CF was copied and pasted into a thread in the Baptist area and renamed "I Don't Sin" and it started an interesting debate, but since I'm not a Baptist I was "not allowed" to respond and when I did my responses were deleted. So I moved it here!
This is the original posting I made. "I was a born again only Christian for 33 years and yet I still loved sin and in those years I sinned thousands and thousands of times. Everything from sexual sin, to drunkeness, lust, greed, theft, extreme anger, cursing pride and other sins I'm ashamed to admit. There are millions of born again only Christians living in defeat. Victory over sin as found in 1 Cor 10:13 is just a dream for them (as it was for me for 33 years.) If you doubt me check out the pornography forums here on this site and read about the addictions to porno and sex these born again only Christians still have as I did for 33 years. If you need scriptural proof that born again Christians still sin frequently read 1 Corinthians and see what carnality born again only Christians are capable of. Romans 7 would be another chapter to show how powerless the born again only Christian is against sin.
Being born again is just the first step toward defeating the sinful nature found within us. There is at least one more step in the Christian's life that must be taken before the Christian will have 100% victory over sin."
To set the record straight from the outset, you can easily see I never made any statement in that posting that I don't sin any longer. There is a teaser that one will have 100% victory over sin however, but I never said I had arrived at that point (but I'm pretty close!) So lets start there.
Most of us are familiar with hyperbole. There are several instances of it in the scriptures, one of which is found in John 21:25, "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written." Now that would be a lot of books! My 100% comment was hyperbole, but actually it is not too far off. Would you like to go from sinning 25 times a day to 25 times a year? Read on.
So the question is can a sinner have 100% victory over sin? No. A sinner can only do one thing and that is sin. Sinners cannot "do" righteousness because they have none, so sinners will never have any victory over sin. So that begs the question are born again Christians sinners? Or is the born again Christian a saint? We are called "saint(s)" 61 times in the NT. In Luke 5:32 Jesus said "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (see also Luke 15:7.) The righteous are not sinners according to these passages. Then Jesus in the very next passage (5:33) contrasts the difference between the righteous and sinners when He said "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same."
Prior to Pentecost the disciples were a bunch are bumbling powerless men who sinned on at least two occasions. See Luke 9:46; the sin of pride, Mark 9:29; the sin of prayerlessness, but after Pentecost the only sin that is recorded of any disciple is where Peter refused to eat with Gentiles (Gal 2:12.) I assume if there were other sins that they had committed they would be mentioned but they are not so by the silence of the scriptures we can assume they didn't sin any longer. As we all know the bible doesn't sugar coat anyone's sin especially God's own children. So what was the difference between the disciples of the gospels and the disciples from Acts chapter 2 and on? The infilling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives us power over sin. In fact according to one passage we cannot sin! 1 John 3:9, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 John 5:18, "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him." We have, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, absolute power over the evil one. Jesus prayed in John 17:15 "My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one." 1 John 5:14-15 says "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us-whatever we ask-we know that we have what we asked of him." Does not God want us to be free from the power of sin? Have we asked God to deliver us from the evil one? 2 Thess 3:3, "But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen and protect you from the evil one." We are told twice that we "have overcome the evil one" in 1 John 2:13 and 2:14.
So it appears to be a matter of belief. If you are absolutely convinced in your heart that you are still a sinner, you will sin because that is what sinners do. But if you are absolutely convinced in your heart that you have been imputed with the very righteousness of God Himself, and you know you are a child of God, and the Holy Spirit has absolute reign in your heart, you will live a life that is virtually free of sin. "For as [a man] thinketh in his heart, so is he." Prov 23:7. So what do you think?
LST 1154
What a wonderful post, I couldn't agree more!
Let us be renewed in our mind, even as our spirits are made new, moment by moment.
__________________
.
Can the will at the same time make opposite choices? Can it choose the highest good of being as an ultimate end, and at the same time choose any other ultimate end, or make any choices whatever inconsistent with this ultimate choice?
A posting I made in the Wesleyan area here on CF was copied and pasted into a thread in the Baptist area and renamed "I Don't Sin" and it started an interesting debate, but since I'm not a Baptist I was "not allowed" to respond and when I did my responses were deleted. So I moved it here!
This is the original posting I made. "I was a born again only Christian for 33 years and yet I still loved sin and in those years I sinned thousands and thousands of times. Everything from sexual sin, to drunkeness, lust, greed, theft, extreme anger, cursing pride and other sins I'm ashamed to admit. There are millions of born again only Christians living in defeat. Victory over sin as found in 1 Cor 10:13 is just a dream for them (as it was for me for 33 years.) If you doubt me check out the pornography forums here on this site and read about the addictions to porno and sex these born again only Christians still have as I did for 33 years. If you need scriptural proof that born again Christians still sin frequently read 1 Corinthians and see what carnality born again only Christians are capable of. Romans 7 would be another chapter to show how powerless the born again only Christian is against sin.
Being born again is just the first step toward defeating the sinful nature found within us. There is at least one more step in the Christian's life that must be taken before the Christian will have 100% victory over sin."
To set the record straight from the outset, you can easily see I never made any statement in that posting that I don't sin any longer. There is a teaser that one will have 100% victory over sin however, but I never said I had arrived at that point (but I'm pretty close!) So lets start there.
Most of us are familiar with hyperbole. There are several instances of it in the scriptures, one of which is found in John 21:25, "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written." Now that would be a lot of books! My 100% comment was hyperbole, but actually it is not too far off. Would you like to go from sinning 25 times a day to 25 times a year? Read on.
So the question is can a sinner have 100% victory over sin? No. A sinner can only do one thing and that is sin. Sinners cannot "do" righteousness because they have none, so sinners will never have any victory over sin. So that begs the question are born again Christians sinners? Or is the born again Christian a saint? We are called "saint(s)" 61 times in the NT. In Luke 5:32 Jesus said "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (see also Luke 15:7.) The righteous are not sinners according to these passages. Then Jesus in the very next passage (5:33) contrasts the difference between the righteous and sinners when He said "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same."
Prior to Pentecost the disciples were a bunch are bumbling powerless men who sinned on at least two occasions. See Luke 9:46; the sin of pride, Mark 9:29; the sin of prayerlessness, but after Pentecost the only sin that is recorded of any disciple is where Peter refused to eat with Gentiles (Gal 2:12.) I assume if there were other sins that they had committed they would be mentioned but they are not so by the silence of the scriptures we can assume they didn't sin any longer. As we all know the bible doesn't sugar coat anyone's sin especially God's own children. So what was the difference between the disciples of the gospels and the disciples from Acts chapter 2 and on? The infilling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives us power over sin. In fact according to one passage we cannot sin! 1 John 3:9, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 John 5:18, "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him." We have, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, absolute power over the evil one. Jesus prayed in John 17:15 "My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one." 1 John 5:14-15 says "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us-whatever we ask-we know that we have what we asked of him." Does not God want us to be free from the power of sin? Have we asked God to deliver us from the evil one? 2 Thess 3:3, "But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen and protect you from the evil one." We are told twice that we "have overcome the evil one" in 1 John 2:13 and 2:14.
So it appears to be a matter of belief. If you are absolutely convinced in your heart that you are still a sinner, you will sin because that is what sinners do. But if you are absolutely convinced in your heart that you have been imputed with the very righteousness of God Himself, and you know you are a child of God, and the Holy Spirit has absolute reign in your heart, you will live a life that is virtually free of sin. "For as [a man] thinketh in his heart, so is he." Prov 23:7. So what do you think?
LST 1154
Good, post, but I would say that in those 33 years that you were living in habitual, unrepentant sin, you were not saved, and if you has died in that state you would have went to hell, but your last paragraph was excellent.
''So it appears to be a matter of belief. If you are absolutely convinced in your heart that you are still a sinner, you will sin because that is what sinners do. But if you are absolutely convinced in your heart that you have been imputed with the very righteousness of God Himself, and you know you are a child of God, and the Holy Spirit has absolute reign in your heart, you will live a life that is virtually free of sin. "For as [a man] thinketh in his heart, so is he." Prov 23:7. So what do you think?''
Yes one who believes himself to be a ''sinner saved by grace'' will continue in sin, but one who believes Jesus had freed them from sin, and that they are truly free will not continue to commit sin. As a man think in his heart so is he.
[quote=Remnant 01;53339606]Good, post, but I would say that in those 33 years that you were living in habitual, unrepentant sin, you were not saved, and if you has died in that state you would have went to hell, but your last paragraph was excellent.[quote]
Habitual yes. Unrepentant no. I was saved all that time, not the "saved" phony religiousity I see everywhere in most churches but a genuine born again salvation experience. I'm convinced I would have gone to heaven had I died during that time. During those years I would "complain" to the Lord every time I confessed my sins that this was not my idea of what Christianity is supposed to be like. My idea of Christianity was victory and power, not defeat and powerlessness.
I grew up in the Presbyterian Church and I saw nothing there but sin and worldliness. I went to school with hundreds of Catholics and none of them or their parents seemed to have any power over sin. I had several Orthodox neighbors and they had no power either. I could tell the Mormon's and JWs were both cults and false prophets even before I received Christ. It wasn't until I received Christ in 1975 that I had my first taste of power and I loved it, but a taste was not enough. I wanted a full seven course meal. That finally came 33 years later. I'm still not exactly sure why the delay. My guess is because of the abuse I suffered as a child there was some healing that needed to be done beforehand, and the Lord knew the time was not right until 33 years after I received Him.
Linear Mode
