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View Poll Results: Which parts of the Bible is Christianity based on? | |
The New Testament
|     | 8 | 16.33% | |
The New and Old Testament
|    | 36 | 73.47% | |
Other (Please Explain)
|    | 5 | 10.20% |
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8th October 2009, 11:52 AM
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Reps: 82,282,709,515,087 (power: 82,282,709,517) | | Originally Posted by JTornado1  Although Christianity is based mostly on the NT, the NT quotes the OT approximately 300 times. For example, Revelation quotes heavily from Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Daniel.
But, still, when Jesus outright refutes "eye for an eye," he seems to be saying we can't trust the spirit in which some of the OT is written.
We have to measure every scripture against his two love commandments. It's what he he kept doing in his debates with the Pharisees, by telling the Good Samaritan story, and by most of what he taught in Matthew chapter 5.
I love the Old Testament, but when I read something I simply cannot square with Jesus' two love commandments, I leave it be and pray that God will honor my ignoring those parts and still accept me if my earnest desire is to follow Jesus on these things.
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But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23 |
1st November 2009, 02:04 PM
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Reps: 34,220,173,528,709,196 (power: 34,220,173,528,713) | | Originally Posted by marlowe007 It's clear that Jesus himself didn't follow the OT, since according to the Gospels he repeatedly denied the law. He taught against the lex talionis, and against Moses' legislation concerning divorce. He abrogated the dietary laws (Mark 7:18-22). He prevented the law from being applied (John 8:7). He rejected the law and the prophets entirely, making them a thing of the past (Luke 16:16). He also violated the sabbath - that is, the 4th commandment - and defended his disciples when they did the same.
I realize I'm talking to someone who doesn't believe that The Bible is inerrant, doesn't believe in the reality of a physical place called hell, and who knows what else. I just wanted to God's word use us (at least me) with the following passage -
17"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." - Matthew 5:17,18  |
1st November 2009, 02:07 PM
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Reps: 34,220,173,528,709,196 (power: 34,220,173,528,713) | | | Lastly, I agree with what someone has already posted. I have a difficult time with people who call themselves Christian who deny the entire 66 book Bible.
I want to put Isaiah 53 out there. Who was the prophet talking about there? |
20th November 2009, 01:52 PM
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Reps: 1,108,166,248,678 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by marlowe007 It's clear that Jesus himself didn't follow the OT, since according to the Gospels he repeatedly denied the law. He taught against the lex talionis, and against Moses' legislation concerning divorce. He abrogated the dietary laws (Mark 7:18-22). He prevented the law from being applied (John 8:7). He rejected the law and the prophets entirely, making them a thing of the past (Luke 16:16). He also violated the sabbath - that is, the 4th commandment - and defended his disciples when they did the same.
how can you say that jesus did not follow the law and with all your references you have shown that the law is basically void and no longer appropriate, very similar to norm and mainstream belief through pauls teachings...
what is your interpretation of the Matthew 5:17... jesus has said he comes not to abolish the law but to fulfill it... you cannot state that its is not viable if jesus says himself it is and in other places all the things you have qouted are contradicted... if the law is to be fulfiled and reinstated, i know historically people were going away from the message, then how can it be that everything is gone...
seems like another lost translation which is making us confused today... for me, both texts should be considered in its entirity or remove it from the chrisitian bible... is it only there to prove what mainstream christianity wants...???
be careful what selected qoutes you use or are taught as other qoutes show the absolute contrast, please. |
20th November 2009, 01:56 PM
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Reps: 1,108,166,248,678 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by trentlogain2 Lastly, I agree with what someone has already posted. I have a difficult time with people who call themselves Christian who deny the entire 66 book Bible.
I want to put Isaiah 53 out there. Who was the prophet talking about there?
i think it is the same as the prophet in dueteronomy 18:18 and throughout john 14, 16 and various other places...
the attributation of the holy spirit to the spirit of truth that jesus spoke of is not feasible which is why i dont believe it... the bible i full of attributes of this prophet, comforter, messenger, whatever you wish to call it based on your version of the bible... apply them all to historical figures and only one matches them all thus fulfilling the prophecy...
i urge you to try |
21st November 2009, 06:14 PM
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Reps: 11,986,043,234,877,488 (power: 11,986,043,234,879) | | Originally Posted by TR1 what is your interpretation of the Matthew 5:17... jesus has said he comes not to abolish the law but to fulfill it... you cannot state that its is not viable if jesus says himself it is and in other places all the things you have qouted are contradicted... if the law is to be fulfiled and reinstated, i know historically people were going away from the message, then how can it be that everything is gone...
That verse might be spurious - many scholars doubt that it goes back to Jesus - but he does repeatedly and approvingly cite the Hebrew scriptures. He throws out what he doesn't like ("an eye for an eye," for example), but he's happy with "love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and all thy mind, and all thy strength." (Deuteronomy 6:5.) He abolishes kashrut, but he gladly quotes "Man does not live by bread alone." (Deut. 8:3.) He breaks the sabbath, but he calls the shma (Deut. 6:4) "the first of all the commandments." In short, the Gospels show Jesus taking a critical and selective attitude to the law. Of course that's a violation in itself, according to the Torah. |
22nd November 2009, 07:43 PM
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Reps: 82,282,709,515,087 (power: 82,282,709,517) | | Originally Posted by marlowe007 That verse might be spurious - many scholars doubt that it goes back to Jesus - but he does repeatedly and approvingly cite the Hebrew scriptures. He throws out what he doesn't like ("an eye for an eye," for example), but he's happy with "love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and all thy mind, and all thy strength." (Deuteronomy 6:5.) He abolishes kashrut, but he gladly quotes "Man does not live by bread alone." (Deut. 8:3.) He breaks the sabbath, but he calls the shma (Deut. 6:4) "the first of all the commandments." In short, the Gospels show Jesus taking a critical and selective attitude to the law. Of course that's a violation in itself, according to the Torah.
Rather than call it "selective attitude," I believe Jesus was correcting thousands of years of wrong. He's emphasizing that the OT law was always intended (by God) to lead his people to love God with all their hearts and to love ones neighbor as oneself. In this, the Law has not changed. But, Jesus is saying that the Jews, over the years, changed the spirit of the Law.
__________________
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23 |
23rd November 2009, 11:04 AM
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I choose NT because I live under the New Covenant. Now of course that imples an Old Covenant. So I like the history and examples of how to live for God in the OT.
If I was to chose what I'd most want to keep in the Bible, it would be to love God and love people. Everything else to me is an amplification of those two thoughts.
I believe Jesus kept the spirit of the law and is a rebel when it comes to saying man's amplification of that law (traditions of men) are required by God. Paul said Jesus was born under the law but 6 times says we aren't under the law.
dayhiker |
23rd November 2009, 12:25 PM
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Reps: 1,108,166,248,678 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by dayhiker Interesting read.
I choose NT because I live under the New Covenant. Now of course that imples an Old Covenant. So I like the history and examples of how to live for God in the OT.
If I was to chose what I'd most want to keep in the Bible, it would be to love God and love people. Everything else to me is an amplification of those two thoughts.
I believe Jesus kept the spirit of the law and is a rebel when it comes to saying man's amplification of that law (traditions of men) are required by God. Paul said Jesus was born under the law but 6 times says we aren't under the law.
dayhiker
show me the 6 references and lets
consider what it means... |
25th November 2009, 10:25 PM
|  | Galatians is the best!
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| | Join Date: 7th September 2009
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Reps: 82,213,530,545,062,688 (power: 82,213,530,545,066) | | Originally Posted by TR1 show me the 6 references and lets
consider what it means...
Under law,your under sin.
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
Here is a great verse.
Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Definition
Telos 5056
1) end
1a) termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be
(always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end
of a period of time)
1b) the end
1b1) the last in any succession or series
1b2) eternal
1c) that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue
1d) the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
2) toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)
2 more classics.
Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
Colossians 2:14
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross
Gee,,,seems like he could not live for God under law.
Galatians 2:19
For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.
Had to be removed,so the gentiles could be blessed to.
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
The inheritance did not come by law.
Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
here is another verse to show why we dont want to walk under law.It is like a mini Romans 6-8.
Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Paul said the law was not for the saved,he did not want it taught to Chrisitians,as he told Tim.
1 Tim 1:7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
And my favorite verse says alot.You want to empower sin,here is the empowerer.
1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
I have a few more,if you so desire.
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Last edited by Frogster; 25th November 2009 at 10:30 PM.
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