Cain's Wife!

juvenissun · #11 13th October 2009, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by archaeologist2

It is amazing at how little people know and how much they think they can answer questions. Do you not study? do you not investigate? do you not read those who know more than you?

ther Op is clearly wrong on all accounts. we know that Cain married a sister but when is not germane to the story and bears no credible influence upon the modern christian life. when people answer that question, they need to couple their response with, 'incest was not made sin till long after the flood.'

we know because we know that each person born intothis world is born into sin, if they had children prior to their expulsion, those whicldren would have to commit original sin to become like the Bible says. also, the curse was made upon adam and eve, no children were involved, and we know that only 2 people were expelled from the garden, if there were children and they had not sinned they would not have to go with their parents for banishment was part of the punishment and if the children had not sinned then they would not be punished.

the account is very clear that only 2 people sinned that day (whenever that was)

one does not have to have experienced pain to have it multiplied.

God did NOT create different races. the Bible is very clear on this as it states "all men descended from Adam...' there is only 1 race of people. genetics and the corruption that enteredinto the world at adam's sin takes care of the rest.

I would suggest that even Adam and Eve had millions of offsprings in the Garden, when Adam and Eve sinned, all their offsprings (in the Garden) will be treated as sinned in God's eye. The reason is the same as all the children of Adam and Eve are sinned when they are born outside the Garden. When Adam sinned, all his children sinned all together, no matter where were they born (inside or outside the Garden). There is no human right issue in God's eye.

archaeologist2 · #12 14th October 2009, 06:12 PM

would suggest that even Adam and Eve had millions of offsprings in the Garden, when Adam and Eve sinned, all their offsprings (in the Garden) will be treated as sinned in God's eye

you would be wrong as you ignore the passage in the pentateuch that states that the children should not be punished for their parent's sin. God does not punish innocent people and it has nothing to do with 'man's view of human rights'.

when adam and eve sinned, there children did not do so unless they did the exact same act as adam did. PLUS you ignore the fact that children aren't mentioned till AFTER the expulsion

juvenissun · #13 15th October 2009, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by archaeologist2

you would be wrong as you ignore the passage in the pentateuch that states that the children should not be punished for their parent's sin. God does not punish innocent people and it has nothing to do with 'man's view of human rights'.

when adam and eve sinned, there children did not do so unless they did the exact same act as adam did. PLUS you ignore the fact that children aren't mentioned till AFTER the expulsion

The Old Testament is full of examples of that sons bear the sin of fathers. Your concept belongs to the New Testament time.

max1120 · #14 19th October 2009, 04:05 PM

First of all Genisis, like all creation stories which are found in almost all religions, was an oral tradition that someone wrote down somewhere in antiquity. It was most likely was not written by Moses but we have no proof of that one way or the other. No surviving copy of Genisis by the origional author exist.

As far as Cain's wife, we really cannot say for certain. If we are to accept by tradition that Adam and Eve were the only created persons and everyone was decended from them, than it is reasonable to believe that indeed Cain had to have married his sister. Thus they produced offspring by incest. Having said this it has been pointed out that incest was not at that time a sin. Well nor was murder? Cain seemed to be held liable for committing murder (his brother Able) yet no where prior to that was it spelled out in Genisis that murder was a sin. The point is that there are a lot of inconcistancies in Genisis and in the bible in general. Why would god create a world where he knew people would have to reproduce by means he felt was wrong (incest). Why would he indeed not create a supply of mates that could be available for Cain and his others relatives who were not related by blood? The fact is the book of Genisis is not a "inerant" work. It is not word for word divine from god's lips. It was written by a man who was trying to explain creation as it had been told to him.

alexross8 · #15 15th November 2009, 03:46 AM

you would be wrong as you ignore the passage in the pentateuch that states that the children should not be punished for their parent's sin. God does not punish innocent people and it has nothing to do with 'man's view of human rights'.

when adam and eve sinned, there children did not do so unless they did the exact same act as adam did. PLUS you ignore the fact that children aren't mentioned till AFTER the expulsion

Sin comes from defiance.
God shows he is God by obeying his own rules.
The only reason Children of Adam will sin , is because they are a separate entity from God.
Sin= Death .
Sin cannot be taken away.

But Jesus payed the price for everyone by paying the parking ticket of sin , and dying for us.
He lived sinless , but died to pay our debts.
Jesus didn't have to die.
But he did , and went to hell , so we could live forever.

But God , being righteous as he is , gives us salvation even if we do not deserve it , only by believing in Jesus.

Imagine Death is community service , and hell is jail.
If we lived forever , we would have sinful nature forever.
Our eternal sinful nature causes us to go to jail.
We will do community service and will still have to go to jail.

Jesus is our lawyer.
Even though he gets us free from Jail , we still have to do community service , Death.

First of all Genisis, like all creation stories which are found in almost all religions, was an oral tradition that someone wrote down somewhere in antiquity. It was most likely was not written by Moses but we have no proof of that one way or the other. No surviving copy of Genisis by the origional author exist.

As far as Cain's wife, we really cannot say for certain. If we are to accept by tradition that Adam and Eve were the only created persons and everyone was decended from them, than it is reasonable to believe that indeed Cain had to have married his sister. Thus they produced offspring by incest. Having said this it has been pointed out that incest was not at that time a sin. Well nor was murder? Cain seemed to be held liable for committing murder (his brother Able) yet no where prior to that was it spelled out in Genisis that murder was a sin. The point is that there are a lot of inconcistancies in Genisis and in the bible in general. Why would god create a world where he knew people would have to reproduce by means he felt was wrong (incest). Why would he indeed not create a supply of mates that could be available for Cain and his others relatives who were not related by blood? The fact is the book of Genisis is not a "inerant" work. It is not word for word divine from god's lips. It was written by a man who was trying to explain creation as it had been told to him.

Incest isn't a sin.
It's an abomination , as with eating unclean foods like pork.
It's not sinful , just very bad end results like deformities in incest and diseases from pork.

Adam and eve were probably very different in genetics , which let them have children who could interbreed without having deformities.
Murder was a sin , but incest wasn't considered an abomination of God because it produced something good at the time.

But around Moses's time , Incest would be harmful , thus would be considered an abomination , because of the effects it could have on children.

Abominations may be sinful , and may not be sinful.
Incest at the time of Adam was good, and was not sinful.
But as soon as it was bad for you , and you had knowledge of that , then it became sinful.

Homosexuality is an abomination.
It's not a sin , but it's sinful if it affects someone's faith or life in a negative way.

Same with pork.
Eating raw pork will cause you to sin if you actively know it's bad for you , but if you don't know if its bad for you or you cooked it , then it isn't sinful , because you know not the consequences or the harm it could cause.

In modern times , homosexuality makes people become atheists , so I would say it's a sinful act , because it affects negatively.

If a man has sex with a man , they have committed the sin of adultery.
But if a man dreams about being with a man in a homosexual way , they haven't committed a sin as long as they haven't done any physical or faith-based damage.

divine137 · #16 25th July 2010, 10:06 PM

Cain's married his niece...that's according to the BOok of Jasher, which is the Book that 2 Samuel and the Book of Joshua reference when speaking of events that are also in the Book of Jasher.

Secondly, Moses did not write Genesis. Moses wrote the LAW. Scribes put together the writings of MOses, Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham...etc and created what we know today as the Torah....

But its obvious as a nose on someone's face that Moses did not author the actual Books. Moses wouldn't had known that he died and God buried him here...and the Israelites crossed without him etc...

Moses also wouldn't had wrote in Genesis the quote..."...this is before there were any kings in Israel..." Moses died way before any kings of Israel.

No, Moses wrote down the LAW....Adam wrote some things, Seth, Noah, etc....the scribes and priests put them together in books....Ezra (revised it, as accounted in the Book of Ezra)...etc...just to chime in...

marlowe007 · #17 28th July 2010, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by divine137

Cain's married his niece...that's according to the BOok of Jasher, which is the Book that 2 Samuel and the Book of Joshua reference when speaking of events that are also in the Book of Jasher.

We don't have in existence the original Book of Jasher, though, only an interpolated one.

marktheblake · #18 12th September 2010, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by divine137

Secondly, Moses did not write Genesis. Moses wrote the LAW. Scribes put together the writings of MOses, Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham...etc and created what we know today as the Torah....

That is the Documentary Hypothesis, the view that Moses wrote Genesis is explained quite well here. Did Moses really write Genesis?

juvenissun · #19 12th September 2010, 11:02 AM

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; ...

If Eve did not give birth in the Garden, what is then the "multiply" based on?

So, my understanding is that Eve gave birth in the Garden like a chicken lay eggs, not much pain.

juvenissun · #20 12th September 2010, 11:15 AM

Again, this MUST be related to the nature of the Garden.

God put Adam and Eve (and their offsprings) in the Garden. But God does not say: you are confined to the Garden. I would say that nothing is restricted to the Garden before the sin. They can stay in, or they can take an adventure or a vacation out, and come back to the Garden.

So, many of their children might simply walk out and scattered around places outside of the Garden. They do not play a role in God's purpose of setting up the Garden.