Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
One of the things that continues to astound me, is that if you take a step back. Scratch that, if you take MANY steps back, and stop looking at all the back and forth between evolutionists and creationists, stop looking at all the hundreds of discussions that have taken place on this board, you would see something that we ALL know, but little do we think about...
Everything creationists believe in, is based on a SINGLE book, written by men thousands of years ago.
Now, we all already know this, atheist and theist alike, but if you repeat the above over and over in your head, the absurdity of it really starts to sink in.
I'm serious. Try it,
Really think about it, Because of a BOOK, just ONE book, people have completely allowed their lives to be run by it. The more I say it, the more outrageous it seems to me I walk over to my bookshelf, and look at all my star wars books, Dresden novels, and my leagues of other books that are fantasy. And I am flabbergasted that someone could take a fantasy book like one of these books, and actually believe everything it says just because they were told to when they were younger.
Sometimes when I am tossing and turning in my sleep, I say to myself, "People ACTUALLY believe this stuff, they ACTUALLY believe it."
Noah's Ark, talking snakes. People truly, to the bottom of their heart AACCTUUALLLLLLYYYYY believe it.
what if the bible were written for the first time today would there be significant differences?
if you take MANY steps back, you would see something that we ALL know, but little do we think about...
Everything creationists believe in, is based on a SINGLE book, written by men thousands of years ago. Now,
we all already know this. Really think about it, Because of a BOOK, just ONE book, people have completely allowed their lives to be run by it. Actually believe everything it says just because they were told to, when they were younger.
IF
you believe, that is the case - apparently you are, at this stage in your personal development, micro experienced.
Give yourself opportunity to really meet a representative sampling, of unique individuals
who like me Accepted GOD, aka Jesus Christ (without ever hearing about, or seeing, or reading no "Bible"). -
This opportunity came, a decade or more after we had Accepted GOD, aka Jesus Christ, as our personal Creator,
Heavenly-father, Teacher, SAVIOR, mentor, Best-friend, & Resurrector. Each of these relationship-facets we remembered, and Peaceful, Thankful, Hopeful, Joyful, Youthful, Cheerful, & Helpfully we set-out living a Christ-like life,
blissful and with GOD-eternally.
.
__________________
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what if the bible were written for the first time today would there be significant differences?
well yes, the bible wouldn't have anything about talking snakes, people being made out of ribs, hmm the flood, no slavery, no attacks on gay people, and a lot more than that.
i figure it would be more mystical more like modern belief systems, less like the bronze-age baggage it has now.
knowing all the science we do i have a feeling it would be closer to deism or gnosticism than christianity is currently.
oh and creationism wouldn't exist because it wouldn't be written in biblical hebrew, aramaic, or greek, and poorly translated into several languages that mangle what the texts say.
i think there would be lots of differences. a lot of the reasons for so many splinter groups in christianity is solely because the books were written down 3000+ years ago and any clueless person can come up with their own theology without knowing anything about what the authors believed
__________________ We have seen thee, Queen of Cheese, Lying quietly at your ease, Gently fanned by evening breeze; Thy fair form no flies dare seize.
All gaily dressed, soon you'll go To the provincial show, To be admired by many a beau In the city of Toronto.
from "Ode on the Mammoth Cheese" by James McIntyre
IF
you believe, that is the case - apparently you are, at this stage in your personal development, micro experienced.
Give yourself opportunity to really meet a representative sampling, of unique individuals
who like me Accepted GOD, aka Jesus Christ (without ever hearing about, or seeing, or reading no "Bible"). -
This opportunity came, a decade or more after we had Accepted GOD, aka Jesus Christ, as our personal Creator,
Heavenly-father, Teacher, SAVIOR, mentor, Best-friend, & Resurrector. Each of these relationship-facets we remembered, and Peaceful, Thankful, Hopeful, Joyful, Youthful, Cheerful, & Helpfully we set-out living a Christ-like life,
blissful and with GOD-eternally.
.
really? are you saying that without hearing the gospel of christ YOU became a christian?
if you are claiming this, you are one of the few ever in the history of the world to become a follower of christ without hearing or reading the bible, in some form, the other being paul.
i'd love to hear how that happened, did god give you a vision like paul? did you have an NDE?
i really can honestly say i don't believe you, being that you use every name given to jesus ever and jesus seems to have only given one person ever a vision of himself, without them ever reading or hearing some sort of story about jesus.
that was paul of course.
__________________ We have seen thee, Queen of Cheese, Lying quietly at your ease, Gently fanned by evening breeze; Thy fair form no flies dare seize.
All gaily dressed, soon you'll go To the provincial show, To be admired by many a beau In the city of Toronto.
from "Ode on the Mammoth Cheese" by James McIntyre
In the absence of proof, there's only the absence.
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New testament, old testament, all testaments. It doesn't matter how much of Christianity you excise from Christianity, it wouldn't change the standard pattern we see of beliefs: People tend to take on the religion of their parents/community.
Since religion has been a major player in human culture for a long time, and since the basis for scientific (ie modern) atheism is only a recent occurrence, I don't think a good claim can be made that more people would be atheist without the bible. It's more likely that the people we see now as Christians would be part of another/various other religions, and the rate of atheism would remain about constant.
Not enough time has passed for atheism to have the footing in the public mindspace that theism has. Give it time, and theism in human culture will be reduced.
IF
you believe, that is the case - apparently you are, at this stage in your personal development, micro experienced.
Give yourself opportunity to really meet a representative sampling, of unique individuals
who like me Accepted GOD, aka Jesus Christ (without ever hearing about, or seeing, or reading no "Bible"). -
This opportunity came, a decade or more after we had Accepted GOD, aka Jesus Christ, as our personal Creator,
Heavenly-father, Teacher, SAVIOR, mentor, Best-friend, & Resurrector. Each of these relationship-facets we remembered, and Peaceful, Thankful, Hopeful, Joyful, Youthful, Cheerful, & Helpfully we set-out living a Christ-like life,
blissful and with GOD-eternally.
.
I am very interested in your experience, Sk8. So you came to the Judeo-Christian God without any external reference to Him? Did you have any contact with a Christian before discovering the Judeo-Christian God or were you living somewhere completely untouched by the West (perhaps in the deepest parts of the Amazon?) and one day you came to the realization that there was a being who created the universe and who became simultaneously both wholly god and wholly human, came to earth and sacrificed himself to himself to pay for the sins of his own creation?
And all without external reference to either a Christian or Christian information from a third party?
This is astounding. I would think that would be very amazing.
Not enough time has passed for atheism to have the footing in the public mindspace that theism has. Give it time, and theism in human culture will be reduced.
When you say this you are obviously talking about the US as Atheism is alive and well in the rest of the world, not the third world obviously which is where the US is headed if it persists with it's headlong flight into the dark ages, because the worse the education system becomes in the US the more religious the US will become, just like the third world, because as you know education is the biggest enemy of religion, religion thrives in the uneducated countries across the globe, and the uneducated parts of the first world.
GOD, aka Jesus Christ (without ever hearing about, or seeing, or reading no "Bible"). - 
life, 
and with 
GOD-eternally. 
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