What does it mean "to believe?"

DerSchweik · #1 15th September 2009, 05:50 PM

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. - Jn 3:16

And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God. - Acts 16:34a

Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue - John 12:42

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! - James 2:19

Much - and quite rightly so - is made of the topic of belief - in Jesus, in God, etc. Our salvation depends on believing. But what exactly does it mean "to believe" [in Jesus/God]? And how does one know that their "belief" is "saving belief?" Some, as in the authorities above, believed. The demons believe. And even more curiously, some believe -

Now when he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many believed in his name when they saw the signs that he was doing. But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them - John 2:22f

but apparently Jesus does not believe everyone's "belief."

Clearly, some who "believe" have salvation, yet others who "believe" do not.

So what, biblically, constitutes [saving or salvific] belief and what doesn't?

Ursie · #2 29th November 2009, 02:33 AM

Why does no one respond?

I'll bite. Belief is an active, ongoing thing. It is demonstrated by the action of following Christ. If you 'believe' on Him, you will turn your life over to Him. You will become more and more like Him through the process of sanctification. Belief is not simply intellectual, but must be accompanied by a demonstration of that belief.

ProfessorJ · #3 7th December 2009, 11:24 PM

James 2:19: "You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror."

I requoted the verse because I find it accurate for the situation. Faith, saving faith, requires true faith. A person can "believe" in God, but never act upon that belief. Just "going through the motions" can be a faith, but not the truth faith of the "saints."

Works without faith are useless, but faith without works is dead. Someone that truly believes in Christ and what He did for us, will be expressing that faith in a multitude of way.

And if I may comment on John 2:22, could it be that, as Christ said, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."(John 20:29).

So, what do you think?

In Christ,
Joshua

mannysee · #4 11th January 2010, 12:32 AM

Believing (in the sense of trusting) is the simple answer.
i.e. trusting in Christ and his work which he was sent to do.

Can't think of the exact scripture reference at the moment:-
"In whom you also trusted after you heard the word of truth; the gospel of your salvation."
Another text somewhere speaks of, "(you) embraced that form of teaching which was delivered to you"

Clearly, the demons do not.

nanz2688 · #5 4th February 2010, 11:15 PM

knowing
believing in
and believing on

are different things

knowing means you just know the facts...

"believing in"...is for example you believe in a medicine that it will cure your sickness

but "believing on" to the medicine you will take it..believing on takes action

DerSchweik · #6 6th February 2010, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ursie

Why does no one respond?

I'll bite. Belief is an active, ongoing thing. It is demonstrated by the action of following Christ. If you 'believe' on Him, you will turn your life over to Him. You will become more and more like Him through the process of sanctification. Belief is not simply intellectual, but must be accompanied by a demonstration of that belief.

... in other words (if I follow your point), if someone "believes" it's safe to board an airplane somewhere, that doing so will see them safely there, but they are yet afraid (say) to do so and so don't board the plane (for whatever the cause for their fear), the former is "belief" but the latter is also "belief" - yet accompanied by a demonstration of it - the act of boarding the plane?

In this one example then, "fear" would be the thing that distinguishes one belief from another. I'm mindful of Peter's reaction when he found himself walking on the water with Jesus, saw the wind (digression: one wonders how one "sees" wind

) - and went weak in the knees (er, feet

) and began to sink. And Jesus' response: "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?" (Mt 14:31).

Here we have an equating of "fear" with "doubt" and both to "lack of faith"

I've a question on this - and it's probably a minor one - is it a "demonstration" that we believe that is necessary for salvation - or is the word "demonstration" better replaced with another word?

DerSchweik · #7 6th February 2010, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by ProfessorJ

James 2:19: "You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror."

I requoted the verse because I find it accurate for the situation. Faith, saving faith, requires true faith. A person can "believe" in God, but never act upon that belief. Just "going through the motions" can be a faith, but not the truth faith of the "saints."

Works without faith are useless, but faith without works is dead. Someone that truly believes in Christ and what He did for us, will be expressing that faith in a multitude of ways.

I'd have to agree with this - and not just because of James' words (e.g. Jas 2:20, etc.) - but practically too. To use the example of the airplane in my post above: it's one thing to say "I believe the plane will get me [to its destination] safely." But (and assuming the person wants to get to that destination in the first place), if that same person refuses to board the plane anyway (fear? doubt?) - such refusal says something about that person's "true" (to use your term, which I think appropriate) level of faith/belief in the plane's real ability to actually do what they profess it can.

I guess this goes to the question - "What does it mean to 'truly' believe?"

And I guess I could throw another wrinkle into the discussion by asking, "Can a person's wants/desires (similar to fears/doubts) get in the way of 'true' faith?" While the airplane, for example, will get the person to their destination - so too could other modes of travel (e.g. bus, train, boat, etc.). Their profession of faith in the airplane's ability to reach the destination is 'true' faith in the sense that they would have no compunction for not boarding it (they genuinely believe it will) other than that they'd simply prefer to take another mode of transport.

Fears and doubts can mar 'true' faith. So too can wants and desires (or preferences). ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father but through Me." Jn 14:6)

Originally Posted by ProfessorJ

And if I may comment on John 2:22, could it be that, as Christ said, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."(John 20:29).

So, what do you think?

In Christ,
Joshua

I'm a little unclear what you're getting at here with that verse as it pertains to John 2, but it is an interesting one, for sure so will take a stab at it.

[doubting] Thomas absolutely refused to believe that Jesus was alive (v25 - "I will not believe"). What was he refusing to believe? Well, I think two things - first, the word of those who'd claimed to have seen Him, and then second, Jesus' own words (and those of the prophets) - e.g. Jn 13:31ff & etc., Mk 14:28 - "But after I have been raised, I will go before you to Galilee." Jesus had devoted some quality time to explaining to His closest friends what would transpire soon and sought to prepare them, knowing how it would distress them - and in various ways (Peter denied Him 3 times, Thomas here refused to believe, others were downcast, dejected...) - John 20:9 "For as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead."

It was a full week (8 days) after Thomas made his refusal that Jesus appeared to them again, this time with Thomas present. One imagines if He didn't do it just for Thomas' sake (His compassion is great, amen!). What did it take for Thomas to believe? Jesus calls him on it - seeing. Then He proclaims our verse here "Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

My translation (NASB) gives a different tense to that verse than the one you quoted (referring to those others present who believed), but I think the meaning is still applicable to any time (past, present, future). But I think the point of the story rests in the fact that Thomas was, until this point in time, the only one to whom Jesus had not yet appeared (v24) - everyone else had seen Him. In short, Jesus I believe used Thomas to teach us a practical lesson today-believe His word, the scriptures. The need to "see" before one will believe is a form of disbelief - whether from doubt, or fear, or want/desire...

--- Back to John 2 ---

I've long been intrigued by this passage, I'll confess. The primary reason is that John said these people believed [in His Name] - the natural question then is why wouldn't Jesus entrust Himself to them, why didn't He 'trust' their belief? We're told it was because He "knew all men" (vs. 24). We're also told that God knows what's in the heart of man (Acts 1:24, 15:8, etc.). I think that Jesus then obviously knows the difference between a "profession" of faith/belief and 'true' faith/belief. The question then is, what criteria is He using for distinguishing between the two?

I've already become too verbose with this post so will just throw this notion out: "If anyone is willing to do His will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is of God, or whether I speak from Myself." (John 8:17)

DerSchweik · #8 6th February 2010, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by mannysee

Believing (in the sense of trusting) is the simple answer.
i.e. trusting in Christ and his work which he was sent to do.

Can't think of the exact scripture reference at the moment:-
"In whom you also trusted after you heard the word of truth; the gospel of your salvation."
Another text somewhere speaks of, "(you) embraced that form of teaching which was delivered to you"

Clearly, the demons do not.

Yes - the NASB puts it this way - "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of Promise." Eph 1:13.

I think the other verse is, "But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." Romans 6:17f (NASB)

So there is a link between trust and believing, committment and obedience...

I agree with you - while demons may know (believe) that Jesus is who He is - such belief doesn't constitute salvific belief because there clearly is no will, or willingness to obey Him. One might say the motive (with demons) for disobedience then is hatred for Christ, God.

I think there are other motives too. CF John 12:42 - "Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God." These people were more concerned with (valued more) being members of the synagogue than they did being members with Him - and they valued more the approval of the Pharisees than they did God's approval.

I'm mindful of Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must (1) believe that He is, and (2) believe that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

Here the Hebrews writer gives two criteria for [saving] faith/belief:
(1) Belief God is (belief in God - assent) and,
(2) Value for what God has to offer by way of reward for such belief (action)

Motivation (to act, do) requires one first possess a value (want/desire/need) for whatever it is upon which they are going to act (all actions are a function of one's underlying values).

Question is - what is God rewarding? Given assent is common to all belief (by the demons, by the rulers, by the faithful...), what then is God rewarding by way of [our] actions?

DerSchweik · #9 6th February 2010, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by nanz2688

knowing
believing in
and believing on

are different things

knowing means you just know the facts...

"believing in"...is for example you believe in a medicine that it will cure your sickness

but "believing on" to the medicine you will take it..believing on takes action

To be honest, I've never quite grasped the grammatical construct of "believing on" something - kwim? It's just never been something I've used in ordinary daily language.

Nevertheless, I agree with the point of your example.

I can believe in a plane's ability to fly me somewhere safely.
But I can't say I believe on it doing that unless I actually board (get on) the plane - thereby also proving/demonstrating my belief in it's abilities?

In = in (only - sans any motive or willingness to get on)
On = in and on.

LOL - revelation? - maybe I just metaphorically answered my own question about the grammatical construct of "believing on" something.

God&me · #10 25th February 2010, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by DerSchweik

Much - and quite rightly so - is made of the topic of belief - in Jesus, in God, etc. Our salvation depends on believing. But what exactly does it mean "to believe" [in Jesus/God]? And how does one know that their "belief" is "saving belief?" Some, as in the authorities above, believed. The demons believe. And even more curiously, some believe - but apparently Jesus does not believe everyone's "belief."

Clearly, some who "believe" have salvation, yet others who "believe" do not.

So what, biblically, constitutes [saving or salvific] belief and what doesn't?

Believing alone wont save anyone, I believed in God and Jesus for about 20 years, but I wasn't saved until I got born again. [Born of the Spirit of God] When the Bible says "Beileve" in relation to salvation, it means a total commitment to God through Jesus and being born again.
Jesus said in John 17: 3, "Eternal life is knowing God and Jesus". Knowing in this verse means an intermit relationship with God through Jesus.