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20th September 2009, 05:31 AM
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Reps: 97,440,235,412 (power: 0) | | | How many people die by these evil evil terrorist rockets ? 2 or 3 per year. How many civilians did Israel kill this year already ? over 1000.
So, if Hamas is an evil terrorist to you, what is Israel to you ? Satan, Hitler, Stalin ? Do you even find words to qualify israel ?
Last edited by Chipahualca; 20th September 2009 at 10:01 AM.
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20th September 2009, 09:57 AM
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Reps: 487,428,604,501,145,536 (power: 487,428,604,501,153) | | | I fully endorse the conclusion of this report. Isreal acted appalingly when it invaded the Gaza Strip earlier this year. Over a thousand Palestinians died. However, Hamas are also the villains in this report- they advertently fire missiles at Isreali citizens. Both sides are as bad and inhumane as each other.
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20th September 2009, 10:00 AM
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Reps: 97,440,235,412 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Supreme  I fully endorse the conclusion of this report. Isreal acted appalingly when it invaded the Gaza Strip earlier this year. Over a thousand Palestinians died. However, Hamas are also the villains in this report- they advertently fire missiles at Isreali citizens. Both sides are as bad and inhumane as each other.
How many civilians did Hamas kill ? If they killed none or almost none, why are you saying Hamas is as bad as israel when it kills thousands of civilians ? I see no logic here. |
20th September 2009, 10:39 AM
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Reps: 487,428,604,501,145,536 (power: 487,428,604,501,153) | | Originally Posted by Chipahualca How many civilians did Hamas kill ? If they killed none or almost none, why are you saying Hamas is as bad as israel when it kills thousands of civilians ? I see no logic here.
I'm sorry, but I find it hard to defend a group that has consitently wounded and killed (28) Israeli civilians over the past few years. Call me old fashioned! You don't need to see logic here. A life is a life, whether it's one or one million, and whoever ends just one life is bad. Just because Israel has ended far more lives than Hamas, it doesn't mean Hamas is a good or righteous organization.
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20th September 2009, 12:18 PM
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Reps: 18,762,294,747,481,268 (power: 18,762,294,747,485) | | Originally Posted by Chipahualca How many civilians did Hamas kill ? If they killed none or almost none, why are you saying Hamas is as bad as israel when it kills thousands of civilians ? I see no logic here. Finally someone with logic, I don't support Hamas but funny thing UN says Hamas did "crimes against humanity" when only 2-5 Israelis were killed.
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20th September 2009, 01:48 PM
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Reps: 487,428,604,501,145,536 (power: 487,428,604,501,153) | | Originally Posted by formy Finally someone with logic, I don't support Hamas but funny thing UN says Hamas did "crimes against humanity" when only 2-5 Israelis were killed.
No, the report cited the firing of missiles into Israel as a crime against humanity.
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20th September 2009, 01:49 PM
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Reps: 308,806,707,732,847 (power: 308,806,707,746) | | Originally Posted by Chipahualca Hamas was elected in free and democratic elections as the governement of the palestinian people. They are providing education, police services etc.. to the people of Gaza and as such have a sort of quasi statehood and should be dealt with as all organisations who have responsibility for the welfare of people. The label "terrorist" is just a label given to them by western ultra-right politicians, to tag them as "evil". When we turn off our western propaganda sources and instead witness what really happens in palestine when reading reports by neutral scientists and field experts on the issue, we begin to understand that Hamas is not evil, but just a legitimate resistance to the israeli-american genocide of palestinians.
I'm not going to get sucked into a pointless argument about whether Hamas are terrorists or not - they quite obviously engage in terrorism, they have been determined terrorists by the US the Eu and other countries. They began a campaign of suicide bombings in 93, and continue to be involved in terrorism. Their status is not up for debate. Yes they are also elected, yes they provide other services. Yes their resistance may even be legitimate. That does not mean that they are not part of the problem.
We had an opportunity after the election to make deals with Hamas and open a route to them leading them away from violence and towards a more legitimate existence, and we as a group of western powers chose not to, and instead to keep them firmly in the arena they have always existed in, and I think that was a mistake. However it does not change the fact that they are murderers just as the Knesset are.
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20th September 2009, 01:53 PM
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Reps: 308,806,707,732,847 (power: 308,806,707,746) | | Originally Posted by Chipahualca How many civilians did Hamas kill ? If they killed none or almost none, why are you saying Hamas is as bad as israel when it kills thousands of civilians ? I see no logic here.
It is not the efficiency, funding, and trainign which makes people bad - just because Israel are better trained, better equiped and better funded, and therefore kill more people, does not alter the fact that the intent on both sides is to kill innocent people. Israel just happens to be better at it.
The guys who tried to blow up London on 21/7 were no more or less terrorists than those who succeeded on 7/7.
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20th September 2009, 05:57 PM
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Reps: 19,391,142,157,809,696 (power: 19,391,142,157,824) | | Originally Posted by Chipahualca How many people die by these evil evil terrorist rockets ? 2 or 3 per year. How many civilians did Israel kill this year already ? over 1000.
So, if Hamas is an evil terrorist to you, what is Israel to you ? Satan, Hitler, Stalin ? Do you even find words to qualify israel ?
First, a source for your assertion that Israel deliberately targeted and killed over 1000 civilians.
Second, the number of people killed isn't the point. If I rig a car in the town square with explosives and detonate it, but some of the explosives fail to go off and thus "only" a couple people are killed, am I any less a homicidal terrorist who deserves punishment as such?
Hamas is a terrorist organization. If they want a place at the table to discuss the future of Palestine, they must renounce terrorism and make verifiable commitments to abide by the norms of international law. There is precedent for this. The Irish Republican Army had legitimate grievances, but chose a wholly unacceptable path to "air" those grievances: bombing, shooting, and other mayhem, some of it directed at civilians. Thus, the IRA was told that in order to become a legitimate part of the Northern Ireland polity, it had to verifiably renounce terrorism as a means of achieving political change. It did so, and now has a place at the table.
Israel likewise needs to cease settlement activity (including their "natural growth" loophole that's big enough to drive a Hummer through) and formally acknowledge the Palestinian people have rights and a historical presence and culture in the region that must be respected.  |
20th September 2009, 06:17 PM
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Reps: 97,440,235,412 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by TheNewWorldMan First, a source for your assertion that Israel deliberately targeted and killed over 1000 civilians.
The OP's detailled wording cannot be overseen. Second, the number of people killed isn't the point. If I rig a car in the town square with explosives and detonate it, but some of the explosives fail to go off and thus "only" a couple people are killed, am I any less a homicidal terrorist who deserves punishment as such?
I understand.. the nazis were the good guys because they shot and terrorized the civilian population while the real bad guys was the french résistance because they plasticated german interests ? | | |
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