I for one am very happy and rejoicing over the ELCA's decision to work for the full inclusion of God's gay and lesbian children in the life of the church.
I work for the inclusion of these folks, and all of God's children through the truth of God's word. The bottom line is that scripture is quite clear that those that consistently engage in homosexual behavior do not have Christ abiding in them. They do not have eternal life because they deny the truth of His word.
It honors the spirit of Jesus and his scandalous acts of inclusion and God's radical love and inclusive grace.
He said "go and sin no more" not "go and continue living in your sins."
Absolutely. The Lutheran churches are organized regionally and--in the USA and some other areas--there are competing bodies. Originally, most of these were mission churches of whatever European Lutheran church was ministering to emigrants to the New World--Danish, German, Norwegian, Swedish, Slovak, Finnish, Estonian, etc. It was said that there were seventeen of significance after WW II, and there had been substantially more prior to the war.
In recent years, many have merged along doctrinal lines. So...there are about a dozen now (in the USA) of various sizes. The ELCA itself was formed only a few years back by bringing three different Lutheran bodies together. The bulk of them were Scandinavian in background and generally considered to be among the more liberal of the Lutherans in the USA.
Absolutely. The Lutheran churches are organized regionally and--in the USA and some other areas--there are competing bodies. Originally, most of these were mission churches of whatever European Lutheran church was ministering to emigrants to the New World--Danish, German, Norwegian, Swedish, Slovak, Finnish, Estonian, etc. It was said that there were seventeen of significance after WW II, and there had been substantially more prior to the war.
In recent years, many have merged along doctrinal lines. So...there are about a dozen now (in the USA) of various sizes. The ELCA itself was formed only a few years back by bringing three different Lutheran bodies together. The bulk of them were Scandinavian in background and generally considered to be among the more liberal of the Lutherans in the USA.
I think it is fairly obvious that, from reading their web site, the ELCA claims to speak in this country for all evangelical Lutheran's. Yet it should be noted that LCMS - Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is against this gay clergy proclamation.
Are they ordained in their state of being gay? I know my denomination will not ordain a gay pastor and if they do they I'll find another denomination.
You seem to be forgetting that gay does not mean actively gay. You are writing off a huge number of celibates in your judgementalist comment.
Good luck with that.
How is being gay and living a lifestyle that is diametrically opposed to the truth of the Gospel and epistles being honest?
Being gay is not contrary to the Gospel. See above.
Where does your level of "honesty" end? Should churches ordain pedophiles? Those that prefer bestiality? What about polygamists? It that cool? Where does it stop and to what level of belief will one have in the truth of the Bible?
Not even the end of the first page and you equate paedophilia and bestiality with gayness. When you think of gay men, do you always immediately imagine lascivious behaviour with animals and children? If so, you have real problems; far worse than being gay. I most certainly do not. I imagine them as I have seen them, with a cup of tea, watching television. In other words, to the pure, all things are pure. And to the prurient, nothing is.
Have you ever lost your temper? Are you, therefore, just one small step away from being a serial killer? Can you see any difference between the two, or is everything just black and white to you?
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A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench.
I think it is fairly obvious that, from reading their web site, the ELCA claims to speak in this country for all evangelical Lutheran's. Yet it should be noted that LCMS - Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is against this gay clergy proclamation.
How? I just visited the ELCA website, and they don't appear to be speaking for anyone other than the ELCA.
Homesexuality is a sin and having a gay priest is blasphemous to say the least. While we have had a few monks that were gay they lived a life of celibacy and learned to reign in the passions of their flesh.
Not one single actively gay (but necessarily covert) Orthodox priest anywhere. Yeah right. I am pretty sure a huge number of your celibate priests and even bishops are very happily unmarried, for the same reason as a lot of Catholic priests and bishops are happily unmarried.
To claim they are all celibate is disingenuous, to say the very, very least. I am sure many are. And I am equally sure many are not.
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A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench.
BUT, and this is where you are wrong Catherineanne: The question was, Can an active, practicing homosexual properly and accurately convey the truth of the Gospel?
I would have to say NO. Why? Because such a person is UNREPENTENT of their sin. They are willfully and wantonly engaging in sinful activity and appaently have no intention of changing. It would be like a kleptomaniac who just gives in to his disease and figures he'll just go on stealing and just accept it. That does not work.
You are welcome to your opinion. However, as you may have noticed, I disagree. I am not as ill mannered as you, however, and will refrain from calling you wrong. Misguided, maybe. Antiquated. Reactionary. You get the idea.
In my country being gay is not illegal, and civil partnerships are becoming ordinary enough to be accepted by the vast majority of people as normal and humane. In my denomination being gay is not (yet) exactly approved of, but neither is our priesthood, or any other priesthood, without its very devout, very Godly, gay ministers. Some have partners, some do not. It makes no difference to their ability as priests.
As with any other minister, what they get up to behind closed doors is not my concern. To me it comes under the injunction; 'thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father'.
I am very grateful for gay priests, and for their ministry. They are created by God, and as far as I am concerned, it is not for me to question that, or to say that his creation is flawed in this matter. There are enough gay people around, contributing hugely to the world in all sorts of areas, for us to move on from the frankly medieval thinking that being gay is some kind of disease, that our churches need protecting from. It isn't.
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A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench.
You seem to be forgetting that gay does not mean actively gay.
And you seem to have not read the article.
By voting Friday to allow gays and lesbians in committed relationships to serve as clergy, the 4.7-million member Evangelical Lutheran Church in America will either show how a church can stand together amid differences, or become another casualty of division over sexual morality and the Bible, observers say.
You are writing off a huge number of celibates in your judgementalist comment.
But again, this vote had nothing to do with those that are celebrates.
Good luck with that.
Again, you may want to brush up on what the article has stated.
Being gay is not contrary to the Gospel. See above.
Engaging in homosexual acts is called an abombination in the word of the Lord. From Genesis to Revelation it is frowned upon and can lead to separation from God.
Not even the end of the first page and you equate paedophilia and bestiality with gayness.
So does God's word.
When you think of gay men, do you always immediately imagine lascivious behaviour with animals and children? If so, you have real problems; far worse than being gay. I most certainly do not. I imagine them as I have seen them, with a cup of tea, watching television. In other words, to the pure, all things are pure. And to the prurient, nothing is.
I actually don't think of gay men. As a member of a prison ministry group I have addressed a fair number of heterosexual pedophiles. I have a great deal of empathy and pity for people involved in ANY sexual sin. Why would you equate my opposition to this ruling as hating gays, which seems so typical.
My opposition to this is no difference than to my dislike of theft.
Have you ever lost your temper? Are you, therefore, just one small step away from being a serial killer? Can you see any difference between the two, or is everything just black and white to you?
Yes, I have lost my temper and interestingly the Sermon on the Mount frowns upon those that lose their temper without just cause. I try to keep this in mind.
But the ELCA is the largest Lutheran body in America and is larger than the LCMS and LCWS conbined.
First, there is no "LCWS." That's the WELS.
Yes, the ELCA is the largest Lutheran body. Now. The question was whether it is the ONLY Lutheran body in the USA. In fact there are many.
As for its size, which seems important to you, it was NOT the largest until it (the LCA) merged with two smaller bodies a decade or so ago. If some other mergers happen in the near future, more leapfrogging will occur, so that isn't as significant as it might seem.
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