Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (orthodox Christians only) > Theology (orthodox Christians only) > Christian History
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

Christian History The forum to discuss the history of the Christian church.

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Unread 18th September 2009, 09:16 AM
archierieus's Avatar
Craftsman

Gender: Male Married Faith: Protestant Country: United States Member For 5 Years Fisherman
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 25th May 2008
Location: Petaluma, Califiornia
Posts: 6,717
Blessings: 283,443
Reps: 277,543,840,266,876 (power: 277,543,840,279)
archierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond repute
archierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Behe's Boy View Post
But I don't understand why he is being looked to as the final authority on this or any issue. It is quite possible that Graham didn't have all the facts in regards to Finney.
I don't know. I do understand that he has a place of honor in the Billy Graham Center. I would expect nothing less than strict integrity from Billy Graham, and suspect that with his international standing and exposure whatever the info about Charles Finney would have been brought to his attention. but that is IMO.

Let's face it - based on what has been presented here in regards to Finney's teachings it can honestly be said that he led no one to a saving faith in Christ but to something completely different that is not the gospel.
And that is the key--'what has been presented here.' What has been presented here are snippets from both sides, and I long ago discovered the importance of reading the entire document or treatise. As it is said, there are always two sides. But I really don't feel driven to do so in this case, it is not that big a thing to me personally. I do, however, have an interest in fairplay.

Also - Graham taught the security of the believer - yet you don't agree on that. So why give credence to what he says about Finney but not this?
There are some things taught by a variety of Christian teachers which I do not agree with. There is wide disagreement between Christian teachers themselves on such matters. But God can use them all to accomplish good. I believe God works through a wide variety of teachers and believers, even though their knowledge may not be complete or correct in every detail. God will no doubt continue to guide them to a clearer understanding of Bible truth, whatever the issue may be.
__________________
"Study to show yourself approved unto God, a good workman who needs not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #52  
Unread 18th September 2009, 11:13 AM
AndOne's Avatar
Formerly known as Behe's Boy

Gender: Male Married Faith: Calvinist Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 20th April 2002
Posts: 7,299
Blessings: 1,229,521
My Mood Fine
Blog Entries: 55
Reps: 252,871,447,070,561,760 (power: 252,871,447,070,581)
AndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond repute
AndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond reputeAndOne has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by archierieus View Post
I don't know. I do understand that he has a place of honor in the Billy Graham Center. I would expect nothing less than strict integrity from Billy Graham, and suspect that with his international standing and exposure whatever the info about Charles Finney would have been brought to his attention. but that is IMO.



And that is the key--'what has been presented here.' What has been presented here are snippets from both sides, and I long ago discovered the importance of reading the entire document or treatise. As it is said, there are always two sides. But I really don't feel driven to do so in this case, it is not that big a thing to me personally. I do, however, have an interest in fairplay.



There are some things taught by a variety of Christian teachers which I do not agree with. There is wide disagreement between Christian teachers themselves on such matters. But God can use them all to accomplish good. I believe God works through a wide variety of teachers and believers, even though their knowledge may not be complete or correct in every detail. God will no doubt continue to guide them to a clearer understanding of Bible truth, whatever the issue may be.
Fairplay? Could have fooled me. There is enough documentation posted on Finney's erroneous teachings on this thread to fill up a novel. Hardly what I would call snipets. Rather than taking an honest look at them you say the guy is alright because Billy Graham says he's alright.

So how about Charles Spurgeon - one of the great Calvinist preachers of the 1800's. Billy Graham had a lot of good things to say about him as well. Since Billy Graham endorsed him does he get your nod of approval too?
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Unread 18th September 2009, 12:23 PM
archierieus's Avatar
Craftsman

Gender: Male Married Faith: Protestant Country: United States Member For 5 Years Fisherman
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 25th May 2008
Location: Petaluma, Califiornia
Posts: 6,717
Blessings: 283,443
Reps: 277,543,840,266,876 (power: 277,543,840,279)
archierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond repute
archierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond reputearchierieus has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Behe's Boy View Post
Fairplay? Could have fooled me. There is enough documentation posted on Finney's erroneous teachings on this thread to fill up a novel. Hardly what I would call snipets.
To draw small quotes from here and there is not linking to the entire document. If someone were to do that, then it could be studied as a whole.

Rather than taking an honest look at them you say the guy is alright because Billy Graham says he's alright.
Rather than reach a conclusion based on selected quotes, I would reserve judgment until being able to examine the treatise as a whole. But if Billy Graham speaks favorably, that certainly does have some weight IMO.

So how about Charles Spurgeon - one of the great Calvinist preachers of the 1800's. Billy Graham had a lot of good things to say about him as well. Since Billy Graham endorsed him does he get your nod of approval too?
Indeed, Spurgeon without doubt had many inspiring and helpful thoughts to share. On these threads, I would raise questions if he or Finney or any other commentator were to be cited as a doctrinal authority or evidence of Bible truth.
__________________
"Study to show yourself approved unto God, a good workman who needs not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15

Last edited by archierieus; 18th September 2009 at 12:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Unread 18th September 2009, 01:28 PM
student ad x's Avatar
Senior Contributor

Gender: Male Faith: Other-Religion Party: US-Others Member For 5 Years Fisherman
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 21st February 2009
Location: just outside the forrest
Posts: 9,967
Blessings: 7,755
Blog Entries: 56
Reps: 2,996,029,246,560,157,696 (power: 2,996,029,246,560,172)
student ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond repute
student ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond reputestudent ad x has a reputation beyond repute
MOD HAT ON



Thread moved to Christian History....... from Soteriology

MOD HAT OFF
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Unread 18th September 2009, 04:29 PM
heymikey80's Avatar
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur

51 Gender: Male Married Faith: Calvinist Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 18th December 2005
Posts: 14,314
Blessings: 14,273,395
My Mood Busy
Reps: 1,407,038,420,931,968,512 (power: 1,407,038,420,931,991)
heymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond repute
heymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by atcfisherman View Post
This is pathetic!!!! It is amazing how people ridicule others and act like they are the final word of God interpreters. I have seen almost no calvinist here to show Christ like love. All I see is hatred, aggressiveness and meanness to people who don't accept their theological views of predestination or free will.
Well, you'll just have to take that up with your cohorts, because none of you will listen to us. The pathos is fairly obviously that they're posting anti-Calvinists positions, and we're defending against them.

If you have a problem with allowing for all views, then you'll really need to talk to those who are attacking Calvinism.
__________________
"... not an unconcerned sitting of God in heaven, from which He merely observes the things that are done in the world; but that all-active and all-concerned seatedness on His throne above, by which He governs the world which He Himself hath made." John Calvin
regeneration does not act in people as if they were blocks and stones; nor does it abolish the will and its properties or coerce a reluctant will by force, but spiritually revives, heals, reforms Canons of Dordt, 1.16


"Have I become your enemy by telling the truth?" Paul
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Unread 18th September 2009, 04:36 PM
heymikey80's Avatar
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur

51 Gender: Male Married Faith: Calvinist Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 18th December 2005
Posts: 14,314
Blessings: 14,273,395
My Mood Busy
Reps: 1,407,038,420,931,968,512 (power: 1,407,038,420,931,991)
heymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond repute
heymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond reputeheymikey80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by archierieus View Post
To draw small quotes from here and there is not linking to the entire document. If someone were to do that, then it could be studied as a whole.
... while offending copyrights. Buy yourself a copy. The citation's there.
Originally Posted by archierieus View Post
Rather than reach a conclusion based on selected quotes, I would reserve judgment until being able to examine the treatise as a whole. But if Billy Graham speaks favorably, that certainly does have some weight IMO.
But then there's ...
Originally Posted by archierieus View Post
Indeed, Spurgeon without doubt had many inspiring and helpful thoughts to share. On these threads, I would raise questions if he or Finney or any other commentator were to be cited as a doctrinal authority or evidence of Bible truth.
Or Billy Graham? I think the question you're raising is against your own statement.
__________________
"... not an unconcerned sitting of God in heaven, from which He merely observes the things that are done in the world; but that all-active and all-concerned seatedness on His throne above, by which He governs the world which He Himself hath made." John Calvin
regeneration does not act in people as if they were blocks and stones; nor does it abolish the will and its properties or coerce a reluctant will by force, but spiritually revives, heals, reforms Canons of Dordt, 1.16


"Have I become your enemy by telling the truth?" Paul
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Unread 20th October 2009, 11:53 PM
Newbie

Gender: Female Faith: Pentecostal Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 20th October 2009
Posts: 227
Blessings: 223,968
My Mood Mellow
Reps: 1,267,634,129,888,780 (power: 1,267,634,129,894)
czali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond repute
czali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond reputeczali has a reputation beyond repute
Once saved always saved! His rod.. and His staff, they comfort me!! I may not be perfect but He is, how then does His salvation, in me, fail? I may sometimes fall.. he picks me up.. that bump on my head from that fall takes some time to mend i will admit... But God never fails and will not fail me. I think after reading this thread i will not bother to read finney. thanks Deacon Dean!
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Unread 6th February 2010, 11:22 AM
everready's Avatar
Christian Member

Gender: Male Faith: Christian Party: US-Constitution Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 8th August 2007
Location: In His Service
Posts: 522
Blessings: 1,019,890
My Mood Fine
Reps: 44,829,392,542,362,176 (power: 44,829,392,542,370)
everready has disabled reputation
Bible Charles H. Spurgeon



Saturday, February 06, 2010
This Morning's Meditation
C. H. Spurgeon

"Praying always."ó.

WHAT multitudes of prayers we have put up from the first moment when we learned to pray. Our first prayer was a prayer for ourselves; we asked that God would have mercy upon us, and blot out our sin. He heard us. But when He had blotted out our sins like a cloud, then we had more prayers for ourselves. We have had to pray for sanctifying grace, for constraining and restraining grace; we have been led to crave for a fresh assurance of faith, for the comfortable application of the promise, for deliverance in the hour of temptation, for help in the time of duty, and for succour in the day of trial. We have been compelled to go to God for our souls, as constant beggars asking for everything. Bear witness, children of God, you have never been able to get anything for your souls elsewhere. All the bread your soul has eaten has come down from heaven, and all the water of which it has drank has flowed from the living rockóChrist Jesus the Lord. Your soul has never grown rich in itself; it has always been a pensioner upon the daily bounty of God; and hence your prayers have ascended to heaven for a range of spiritual mercies all but infinite. Your wants were innumerable, and therefore the supplies have been infinitely great, and your prayers have been as varied as the mercies have been countless. Then have you not cause to say, "I love the Lord, because He hath heard the voice of my supplication"? For as your prayers have been many, so also have been God's answers to them. He has heard you in the day of trouble, has strengthened you, and helped you, even when you dishonoured Him by trembling and doubting at the mercy-seat. Remember this, and let it fill your heart with gratitude to God, who has thus graciously heard your poor weak prayers. "Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits."
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Christian History

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:20 PM.