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Mariology & Hagiography The forum to discuss the area of Christian theology concerned with Mary, the Mother of Jesus as well as the theology involving Saints.

View Poll Results: Did Mary have children after Jesus was born
Yes, I/we believe Mary had children after Jesus was born 47 46.53%
No. I/we believe she did not have children after Jesus 39 38.61%
I am not sure 9 8.91%
Does it matter? 17 16.83%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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  #481  
Old 22nd November 2009, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Thekla View Post

If one wants to rely on what is explicitly stated in the Bible, there really is nothing conclusive. So, to some extent, anything that one thinks about the adelphoi of Jesus -- other than the most general 'could be any number of relationships possible' -- any belief in a narrow meaning of adelphoi relies on tradition/Tradition (including the tradition/Tradition that they were children of Mary).
Exactly. Except some of us recognize the basis for our belief is indeed Tradition, and others do not.
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  #482  
Old 22nd November 2009, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by prodromos View Post
I dislike such images. John the Forerunner was only 6 months older than Jesus and both the Church and scripture only record their meeting twice, once while both were still in the womb and the second time at Jesus' baptism.

John
QTF!
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quote FSTDT: From what I've seen, LLJ is a bit of a bible-quoting robot. Often he posts things in General Apologetics that are quite off-topic.
At least he doesn't call Atheists deluded unlike most Christians. I think that he's too far gone to be saved at this point.
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Hebrews 2:14 Therefore then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood and He in like manner did partake to the same.
That thru the Death He might take-away the one having the power of the Death, that is the Devil


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  #483  
Old 5th January 2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus View Post
QTF!
what does QTF mean?
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  #484  
Old 5th January 2010, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by brinny View Post
what does QTF mean?
"quoted for truth"

I had to ask my son what it meant
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I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages; Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not created, of one essence with the Father through Whom all things were made.
Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;
And He rose on the third day, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father;
And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke through the prophets.
In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the age to come.
Amen.
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  #485  
Old 5th January 2010, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Thekla View Post
"quoted for truth"

I had to ask my son what it meant
"Quoted, truth for"

Remember, LLOJ is the man who is singlehandedly producing the Yoda Standard Version of the Bible!
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  #486  
Old 5th January 2010, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Polycarp1 View Post
"Quoted, truth for"

Remember, LLOJ is the man who is singlehandedly producing the Yoda Standard Version of the Bible!


score
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dir="ltr">
I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages; Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not created, of one essence with the Father through Whom all things were made.
Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;
And He rose on the third day, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father;
And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke through the prophets.
In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the age to come.
Amen.
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  #487  
Old 8th January 2010, 10:34 PM
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Here is a question that all may feel free to answer. Suppose the Scriptures teach that the Theotokos bore other children after she gave birth to Christ. Why then did the Fathers who compiled those Scriptures believe in her ever-virginity, and even felt the need to defend her it? It was not as though they were ignorant of the Scriptures, for these Fathers wrote plenty of Scriptural commentary. If the Scriptures are as clear as the Protestant thinks, then why do Orthodox and even many Protestants believe the Theotokos is ever-virgin? Could it be that each tradition interprets the Scriptures from within a different school of thought? Why discard the Orthodox interpretion out of hand and why the need for Evangelicals to believe the Virgin had sex?

And I would be careful not to use the Scriptures that say Christ is "the carpenter's son," first because He was NOT St. Joseph's son - He had no human father, for He is the Unbegotten Son of God the Father - and second because this was spoken by unbelievers.
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  #488  
Old 11th January 2010, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by drichards85 View Post
Here is a question that all may feel free to answer. Suppose the Scriptures teach that the Theotokos bore other children after she gave birth to Christ. Why then did the Fathers who compiled those Scriptures believe in her ever-virginity, and even felt the need to defend her it? It was not as though they were ignorant of the Scriptures, for these Fathers wrote plenty of Scriptural commentary. If the Scriptures are as clear as the Protestant thinks, then why do Orthodox and even many Protestants believe the Theotokos is ever-virgin? Could it be that each tradition interprets the Scriptures from within a different school of thought? Why discard the Orthodox interpretion out of hand and why the need for Evangelicals to believe the Virgin had sex?

And I would be careful not to use the Scriptures that say Christ is "the carpenter's son," first because He was NOT St. Joseph's son - He had no human father, for He is the Unbegotten Son of God the Father - and second because this was spoken by unbelievers.
The OP is about siblings of Jesus Christ, not about the Eternal Virginity of Mary. As a former poster (CaliforniaJosiah) was fond of pointing out, only one denomination has elevated that doctrine to the level of dogma requisite for salvation and that is the Catholic Church. Although the obvious implication of the OP is that siblings would clearly indicate that Joseph and Mary engaged in marital intimacy, marital intimacy frequently does not result in conception and birth. If you wish to engage in discussing the proofs that Joseph and Mary never engaged in marital intimacy ever, then I can dig up one of CJ's threads for you. Here is one of the livelier threads - http://www.christianforums.com/t7366435/
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  #489  
Old 11th January 2010, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bbbbbbb View Post
The OP is about siblings of Jesus Christ, not about the Eternal Virginity of Mary. As a former poster (CaliforniaJosiah) was fond of pointing out, only one denomination has elevated that doctrine to the level of dogma requisite for salvation and that is the Catholic Church. Although the obvious implication of the OP is that siblings would clearly indicate that Joseph and Mary engaged in marital intimacy, marital intimacy frequently does not result in conception and birth. If you wish to engage in discussing the proofs that Joseph and Mary never engaged in marital intimacy ever, then I can dig up one of CJ's threads for you. Here is one of the livelier threads - http://www.christianforums.com/t7366435/
The Orthodox can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they too view the doctrine of the ever-virginity of Mary as dogma as it was established at one of the early councils which we all accept.
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  #490  
Old 11th January 2010, 01:38 PM
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Perpetual Virginity was never declared dogma by the Orthodox Church. We don't believe something has to be "dogma" in order to be important or believed by all the faithful.
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