| Mariology & Hagiography The forum to discuss the area of Christian theology concerned with Mary, the Mother of Jesus as well as the theology involving Saints. |
|
View Poll Results: Did Mary have children after Jesus was born | |
Yes, I/we believe Mary had children after Jesus was born
|     | 86 | 47.51% | |
No. I/we believe she did not have children after Jesus
|    | 72 | 39.78% | |
I am not sure
|    | 17 | 9.39% | |
Does it matter?
|    | 25 | 13.81% |
 | | 
22nd November 2009, 06:06 PM
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Reps: 226,448,552,890,657,824 (power: 226,448,552,890,665) | | Originally Posted by Thekla 
If one wants to rely on what is explicitly stated in the Bible, there really is nothing conclusive. So, to some extent, anything that one thinks about the adelphoi of Jesus -- other than the most general 'could be any number of relationships possible' -- any belief in a narrow meaning of adelphoi relies on tradition/Tradition (including the tradition/Tradition that they were children of Mary).
Exactly. Except some of us recognize the basis for our belief is indeed Tradition, and others do not. |
22nd November 2009, 06:46 PM
|  | THAT IS WHAT I SAY
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,878) | | Originally Posted by prodromos I dislike such images. John the Forerunner was only 6 months older than Jesus and both the Church and scripture only record their meeting twice, once while both were still in the womb and the second time at Jesus' baptism.
John QTF! 
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National Israel is cursed forever
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The Scroll, the Serpent, the Law and our Salvation
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Coloss 2:14 Blotting out the against us handwriting to the decrees which was hostile to us,
And has taken out of the midst, nailing it to the stauros |
5th January 2010, 11:54 AM
|  | everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
  
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,908) | | Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus QTF!
what does QTF mean?
__________________ "Prove all things;
hold fast that which is good.
Abstain from all appearance of evil."
~1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 posted by ViaCrucis:
It's not even "too much Old Testament", in the Old Testament God is compassionate, shows mercy, is patient and long-suffering. Consider the lesson we learn from Jonah, or the word delivered to Ezekiel that God does not desire the death of the wicked, that God takes no pleasure or joy in the destruction of the wicked by desires that that the wicked repent and change their ways so they might live and have life. God has always been a merciful, compassionate, kind and patient God who has no desire for the destruction of the wicked, who has loving-kindness for the sinner and for the wicked person to change their ways and truly live and have life. -CryptoLutheran |
5th January 2010, 12:36 PM
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Reps: 5,693,469,622,461,727,744 (power: 5,693,469,622,461,752) | | Originally Posted by brinny what does QTF mean?
"quoted for truth"
I had to ask my son what it meant 
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dir="ltr"> " ... let us commit ourselves, and one another, and our whole lives to Christ our God." |
5th January 2010, 12:47 PM
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__________________ "It is written, 'My house shall be a house of prayer,' but you have made it a den of thieves." -Jesus "You've got to be taught before it's too late / Before you are six or seven or eight / To hate all the people your relatives hate / You've got to be carefully taught." - Oscar Hammerstein II |
5th January 2010, 12:52 PM
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dir="ltr"> " ... let us commit ourselves, and one another, and our whole lives to Christ our God." |
8th January 2010, 11:34 PM
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Reps: 141,956,774,629,653 (power: 141,956,774,632) | | | Here is a question that all may feel free to answer. Suppose the Scriptures teach that the Theotokos bore other children after she gave birth to Christ. Why then did the Fathers who compiled those Scriptures believe in her ever-virginity, and even felt the need to defend her it? It was not as though they were ignorant of the Scriptures, for these Fathers wrote plenty of Scriptural commentary. If the Scriptures are as clear as the Protestant thinks, then why do Orthodox and even many Protestants believe the Theotokos is ever-virgin? Could it be that each tradition interprets the Scriptures from within a different school of thought? Why discard the Orthodox interpretion out of hand and why the need for Evangelicals to believe the Virgin had sex?
And I would be careful not to use the Scriptures that say Christ is "the carpenter's son," first because He was NOT St. Joseph's son - He had no human father, for He is the Unbegotten Son of God the Father - and second because this was spoken by unbelievers. |
11th January 2010, 02:12 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,800) | | Originally Posted by drichards85 Here is a question that all may feel free to answer. Suppose the Scriptures teach that the Theotokos bore other children after she gave birth to Christ. Why then did the Fathers who compiled those Scriptures believe in her ever-virginity, and even felt the need to defend her it? It was not as though they were ignorant of the Scriptures, for these Fathers wrote plenty of Scriptural commentary. If the Scriptures are as clear as the Protestant thinks, then why do Orthodox and even many Protestants believe the Theotokos is ever-virgin? Could it be that each tradition interprets the Scriptures from within a different school of thought? Why discard the Orthodox interpretion out of hand and why the need for Evangelicals to believe the Virgin had sex?
And I would be careful not to use the Scriptures that say Christ is "the carpenter's son," first because He was NOT St. Joseph's son - He had no human father, for He is the Unbegotten Son of God the Father - and second because this was spoken by unbelievers.
The OP is about siblings of Jesus Christ, not about the Eternal Virginity of Mary. As a former poster (CaliforniaJosiah) was fond of pointing out, only one denomination has elevated that doctrine to the level of dogma requisite for salvation and that is the Catholic Church. Although the obvious implication of the OP is that siblings would clearly indicate that Joseph and Mary engaged in marital intimacy, marital intimacy frequently does not result in conception and birth. If you wish to engage in discussing the proofs that Joseph and Mary never engaged in marital intimacy ever, then I can dig up one of CJ's threads for you. Here is one of the livelier threads - http://www.christianforums.com/t7366435/ |
11th January 2010, 02:30 PM
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Reps: 226,448,552,890,657,824 (power: 226,448,552,890,665) | | Originally Posted by bbbbbbb The OP is about siblings of Jesus Christ, not about the Eternal Virginity of Mary. As a former poster (CaliforniaJosiah) was fond of pointing out, only one denomination has elevated that doctrine to the level of dogma requisite for salvation and that is the Catholic Church. Although the obvious implication of the OP is that siblings would clearly indicate that Joseph and Mary engaged in marital intimacy, marital intimacy frequently does not result in conception and birth. If you wish to engage in discussing the proofs that Joseph and Mary never engaged in marital intimacy ever, then I can dig up one of CJ's threads for you. Here is one of the livelier threads - http://www.christianforums.com/t7366435/
The Orthodox can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they too view the doctrine of the ever-virginity of Mary as dogma as it was established at one of the early councils which we all accept. |
11th January 2010, 02:38 PM
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Reps: 141,956,774,629,653 (power: 141,956,774,632) | | | Perpetual Virginity was never declared dogma by the Orthodox Church. We don't believe something has to be "dogma" in order to be important or believed by all the faithful. | | |
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