Muslims like old believing nations(Israelites for example) they are not immune from curroption, so when ever they become curropted Allah punish them, just like how Spain fall, they started all staying all night drinking Alcohol and watching women dancing and forgetting about prayers so Allah punish them by sending the Spanish army on them.
same thing to Crusaders and the mongolian invaders, many scholars who lived in that time said that because Muslims became curropt Allah punished them with these 2 invaders.
this verse explain it very well:
surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition; But when (once) Allah willeth a people's punishment, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect.13:11
if you notice Allah will never change our condition until we change ours, so if we became corrupt Allah will make us from powerful victorious nation to a weak one, and vise versa.
This is one of the reasons I was never religious. I think if there was a powerful god who could have created the world and everything in it, he could at least be 100% clear about what he wanted people to do. I know the Bible is very unclear, and there are hundreds of different interpretations you can take. From what little I know if the Quran, it seems like it has the same problems. I don't think it's worth going to war and risking the deaths of millions, when you can't even be sure you're right in your interpretation of the religious texts.
Originally Posted by formy
Yes I would, Jews and Christians can worship under Islamic rule.
Does it say something in the Quran about Jerusalem having to be under Islamic control, or is this just your opinion. Sorry, I know so little about Islam!
Originally Posted by formy
Israel is a terrorist organization in my list just like Taliban/Iran/Al-Qaeda so I wouldn't care if they'd even let Arabs to run for the elections.
Israel have done some very bad things, but surely if they stopped doing them, that would be alright. Britain did some terrible things to the Irish, but I don't hold that against them, because they eventually stopped doing them.
Do you not think that peace is more important than religion? If Israel was a country that lived peacefully with its neighbours, traded with them, and had Arabs and Palestinians in government, helping to run the state on democratic lines, would you still support war with them so Jerusalem could be under Islamic control?
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Originally Posted by EnemyPartyII
First thing I'd do is annex the Sudetenland!
Nice reference to Hitler.
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Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.
This is one of the reasons I was never religious. I think if there was a powerful god who could have created the world and everything in it, he could at least be 100% clear about what he wanted people to do. I know the Bible is very unclear, and there are hundreds of different interpretations you can take. From what little I know if the Quran, it seems like it has the same problems. I don't think it's worth going to war and risking the deaths of millions, when you can't even be sure you're right in your interpretation of the religious texts.
No it is not like what you think, almost all the Muslims especially the Arabs know what they "should" do they know it but they aren't doing it, they should change a lot of things starting with there morals and attitude.
I don't interpret the Qur'an because I'm not a scholar and we Muslims don't need any interpretation because we already have many Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) interpret it to his companions and his companions interpret it to there followers until they wrote the knowledge in books, we already have books for the interpretation of the Qur'an like Ibn kathir/Tabari.
Does it say something in the Quran about Jerusalem having to be under Islamic control, or is this just your opinion. Sorry, I know so little about Islam!
Israel have done some very bad things, but surely if they stopped doing them, that would be alright. Britain did some terrible things to the Irish, but I don't hold that against them, because they eventually stopped doing them.
Do you not think that peace is more important than religion? If Israel was a country that lived peacefully with its neighbours, traded with them, and had Arabs and Palestinians in government, helping to run the state on democratic lines, would you still support war with them so Jerusalem could be under Islamic control?
Israel never wanted peace and never will, they only want peace when there is no single Palestinians in the land they are killing my brothers for 60 years.
they destroyed more then 500 Palestinian village and built settlements on them and they continue on doing that, let them keep there peace.
it started as a British colony, and today it is an American colony.
Zionism is another name for Crusade, two faces of the same coin.
I don't want Israel and no Muslim want it if they deserve a land it will be in Germany.
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Originally Posted by EnemyPartyII
Godwins! Godwins! I win the thread!
Yes, you win. Win what, you ask? Blessings. 500 of the buggers. Just answer me this. Why is it you Catholics pray to Mary and the angels rather than Jesus?
Many thanks.
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Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.
I don't want Israel and no Muslim want it if they deserve a land it will be in Germany.
Israel is there to stay, Israel is far more advanced than its Muslim neighbors, and there's nothing the Muslim world can do about it.
As far as the history of Israel...well, it's far from immaculate, but then the history of Islam itself is built on spreading the faith through rapine, pillage and slaughter, so...
Bottom line: Both Israelis and Muslims need to accept the right of the other to exist in peace, and go from there.
__________________ NOTE: To posts seriously comparing Barack Obama to Adolf Hitler, I respond only with pictures of cute, fuzzy animals.
Israel is there to stay, Israel is far more advanced than its Muslim neighbors, and there's nothing the Muslim world can do about it.
thanks to the billions from westerners, 50 billion only from USA every year.
yeah you are right Muslims can do nothing, YET.
at the time of Crusades Muslims were far weaker and they were broken but after many years they toke Jerusalem back when they were united.
As far as the history of Israel...well, it's far from immaculate, but then the history of Islam itself is built on spreading the faith through rapine, pillage and slaughter, so...
You are mistaken we are not Christians, we are Muslims.
When we came to Spain the Christians who lived few hundred years with the Muslims didn't collaborate with the Christians of Europe who wanted to take it back.
When the early Muslims toke Syria then they retreat because the Byzantines sent a big army ibn alJarah paid the Jizyah back to it people.
When the Muslims toke back Jerusalem they treated the Christians with mercy after slaughtering and persecuting them for many years
we are Muslims not Jews nor Christians.
Bottom line: Both Israelis and Muslims need to accept the right of the other to exist in peace, and go from there.
Israel and it Nazi principles has no right to exist.
let me tell you something, you think the arsenal Israel has can protect it from us or make us fear it, it does not, in the battle of Yarmuok the Muslims were 25,000 the Byzantines were 100,000-200,000 and one of soldiers said: How numerous are the Romans and how few are we. the great Islamic commander Khalid bin Al waleed answered him: How few are the Romans and how numerous are we ! 'An army's strength lies not in numbers of men but in Allah's help, and its weakness lies in being forsaken by Allah
and the battle ended with Muslims only losing 4,000 and the Byzantines losing half there soldiers, it was one of the greatest battles on history.
now go ask yourself, why did your god forsaken the Christians in that battle.
Israel and it Nazi principles has no right to exist.
Well, there is a good starting point for peace talks. Despite your bluster, the last time the Jews and the Arabs squared off, the Arabs didnt do so well. That being said, I am curious about something. What is the big deal about Israel anyway. It is a tiny strip of land, why not let them have it? How many human lives are you prepared to sacrifice to eradicate the Jews? And even if successful, what have you really gained?
__________________ The precept: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” . . . is an abdication of moral responsibility: it is a moral blank check one gives to others in exchange for a moral blank check one expects for oneself. . .The moral principle to adopt in this issue, is: “Judge, and be prepared to be judged.”
-Ayn Rand
Well, there is a good starting point for peace talks.
is there? After all they done Gaza is still under siege, yesterday a kid died because of the siege he couldn't get any medical help.
I don't want any peace with people who think my brothers are animals and build walls around there homes and let them die of hunger and sickness.
Despite your bluster, the last time the Jews and the Arabs squared off, the Arabs didnt do so well.
I already answered that, anyway I admire Ants.
That being said, I am curious about something. What is the big deal about Israel anyway. It is a tiny strip of land, why not let them have it? How many human lives are you prepared to sacrifice to eradicate the Jews? And even if successful, what have you really gained?
it is a tiny strip of land the Ashkhanazi Jews(ironically the word Nazi is part of there name) came with weapons and massacred the people who lived in it and then expelled the rest and now they slowly killing the few who resist, indeed what the big deal about that?
maybe because you're an American, what did they teach you in school about Indians?
let me ask you something, does America separate Church from state?
And another Question, if someone invaded your home killed your father and grandfathers and persecuted you and your people for 60 years and looked at you with despite and hated you would you resist or surrender to them, look at the people who surrendered there homes were demolished and they were expelled, personally I’d fight to death for my and my people’s freedom.
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