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8th September 2009, 10:44 PM
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Reps: 22,204,316 (power: 22,208) | | | My view of UCC conflicted Why does it bother me to see that this congregation has its roots in Calvinism...?
Or that the Heidelberg Confession from which the founder congregations took their direction focuses so strongly on utter depravity and God's wrath equalling eternal torment?
Or that other historical influences preached a minimal liturgy allowing only those things mentioned in the Bible?
Etc...
I guess I am confused about how the history of the UCC connects with its present and future.
I have read lots of stuff from the UCC website, and some UCCers borrows Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox things like Lectio Divina and the Jesus Prayer. I have heard about the political tendencies. I've seen the commercials and learned about the Still Speaking campaign. I read blogs by UCC people like Chuck Currie and Faithful Progressive. That seems to be part of my confusion. Does the UCC just not care about these historical influences in terms of informing its current views? Am I misreading something somewhere? How does a hellfire and brimstone descendant of Calvinism that affirms a document saying humans are totally corrupt and evil beings that an angry God is going to smite with endless damnation, etc, square that with the other beliefs presented?
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9th September 2009, 10:19 AM
|  | muscle car 33 
| | Join Date: 12th June 2009 Location: Sacramento
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Reps: 1,344,940,743,831,579,648 (power: 1,344,940,743,831,585) | | Originally Posted by tinythinker Why does it bother me to see that this congregation has its roots in Calvinism...?
Or that the Heidelberg Confession from which the founder congregations took their direction focuses so strongly on utter depravity and God's wrath equalling eternal torment?
Or that other historical influences preached a minimal liturgy allowing only those things mentioned in the Bible?
Etc...
I guess I am confused about how the history of the UCC connects with its present and future.
I have read lots of stuff from the UCC website, and some UCCers borrows Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox things like Lectio Divina and the Jesus Prayer. I have heard about the political tendencies. I've seen the commercials and learned about the Still Speaking campaign. I read blogs by UCC people like Chuck Currie and Faithful Progressive. That seems to be part of my confusion. Does the UCC just not care about these historical influences in terms of informing its current views? Am I misreading something somewhere? How does a hellfire and brimstone descendant of Calvinism that affirms a document saying humans are totally corrupt and evil beings that an angry God is going to smite with endless damnation, etc, square that with the other beliefs presented? 
The congregations are so different from end of the spectrum to the other. Some hold to strict traditional doctrine while others lean more heavily to Esoteric Christianity.
As far as holding to Calvinistic traditions like Hellfire and Brimstone...I have never heard of a UCC Church that actually believes and teaches that doctrine of hate.
Remember though that all Churches will have their liberals and conservatives.
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9th September 2009, 08:34 PM
| | Regular Member
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Reps: 295,422,052,567 (power: 0) | | | I have met some people from the church of christ denomination and some were of the hell fire and brimstone, but some weren't. It really depends on each congregation and what is taught. | 
9th September 2009, 08:41 PM
|  | Sharp as a razor, soft as a prayer 37 
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Reps: 103,644,116,902,950,112 (power: 103,644,116,902,955) | | Originally Posted by atcfisherman I have met some people from the church of christ denomination and some were of the hell fire and brimstone, but some weren't. It really depends on each congregation and what is taught.
Atc....there's a big difference between the UCC(United Church of Christ) and CoC(Church of Christ). They are often confused.
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9th September 2009, 08:42 PM
|  | muscle car 33 
| | Join Date: 12th June 2009 Location: Sacramento
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Reps: 1,344,940,743,831,579,648 (power: 1,344,940,743,831,585) | | Originally Posted by atcfisherman I have met some people from the church of christ denomination and some were of the hell fire and brimstone, but some weren't. It really depends on each congregation and what is taught.
Keep in mind that "Church of Christ" and "United Church of Christ" are completely different denoms.
COC is definetely hellfire and brimstone whereas even the most conservative UCC does not usually adhere to the doctrine of hell.
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9th September 2009, 09:27 PM
|  | Celtic Rite Old Catholic Church

| | Join Date: 20th February 2009
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Reps: 187,207,274,281,724,320 (power: 187,207,274,281,731) | | Yeah most of the UCC churches I've attended have really preached a social gospel.
CoC on the other hand is full of hyper-calvinist rhetoric.(my experience only of course).
Thanks for letting me visit guys. | 
10th September 2009, 12:03 AM
| | Regular Member
 | | Join Date: 26th August 2009 Location: Baytown, Texas
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Reps: 295,422,052,567 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by b.hopeful Atc....there's a big difference between the UCC(United Church of Christ) and CoC(Church of Christ). They are often confused.
Sorry, I actually didn't know that. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I assume that I can type each in at google and read the differences? Again, thanks for the clarification. | 
12th September 2009, 02:28 AM
|  | Liberal Fundamentalist 46  | | Join Date: 15th July 2009 Location: Ohio
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Reps: 1,840,349,211,438 (power: 1,840,349,214) | | | I grew up in a UCC church. From what I understand the UCC is very liberal. Their slogan is "God is still speaking." I think they have a tendency to forget that God spoke (the scriptures)! I have not been part of UCC for 25 years, but believe their LEADERSHIP needs to take the initiative for revival and returning to scripture to really hear God speak! | 
13th September 2009, 07:16 PM
| | Senior Veteran

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Reps: 5,825,286,539,019 (power: 0) | | | Well... the UCC as a whole is more varied than not. There are some "liberal" areas (especially along coast lines), there are more "conservative" ones, there actually is a historical/traditional/fundamentalist group within the UCC which advocates for a strict return to the roots, there is the "God is still speaking" initiative which some have adopted, just as the "Open and Affirming" initiative is optional. I think that asking "What is the UCC like?" is the wrong question... and that it is more helpful to ask "what is the individual congregation like?" In the end, the congregational polity and the openess to diversity seem to be the two connecting strands throughout the denomination as a whole. However, it is also probably true that within the UCC, those who are middle-to-left leaning hold the majority and that those who are right-leaning are in the minority. The first UCC I ever attended was in a very Evangelical part of the Midwest, in a small city... and it was pretty much a traditional Calvinist church except that in that congregation there were a minority of "progressives" who were into reading stuff like Campolo and ordaining women. At one point in that church's history, one of their pastors came out of the closet and the congregation sucessful voted to have them removed from the church. The second UCC I went to was practically the polar opposite of the first - and it was located in a very secular part of New England. The minister was female, the congregation voted to become "Open and Affirming" and to take part in the "God is still speaking" initiative. The message for Easter sunday openly questioned (if not denied) the bodily resurrection and, at times, I wondered if I was the only person there who held a High Christology. The third UCC I went to was a progressive-Evangelical place. Yes, there was a huge emphasis on the Social Gospel, very Campolo style... the main pastor was female, it was a multi-cultural and multi-racial place, people did not like George W Bush, it was Open & Affirming with a significant queer population... and at the same time, people believed in and worshipped the Risen Christ. The liturgy included Confession time, to repent of our sins... it was a place that believed in the Gospel message. ...It was, more or less, my cup of tea (so to speak). But my own experience here highlights why I am UCC... I used to be trying to find the "right" denomination (i.e. the one that agreed with me on everything I believe). But that doesn't really exist. But what can happen - is that a person can find a congregation of like-minded people, a family to be a part of. Since I'm in seminary, I need the UCC in the sense that I need the freedom to truly be myself without also denying everyone else in the Church who isn't like me. | 
13th September 2009, 10:22 PM
|  | Guest
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Reps: 22,204,316 (power: 22,208) | | Originally Posted by paxi1334 Well... the UCC as a whole is more varied than not. There are some "liberal" areas (especially along coast lines), there are more "conservative" ones, there actually is a historical/traditional/fundamentalist group within the UCC which advocates for a strict return to the roots, there is the "God is still speaking" initiative which some have adopted, just as the "Open and Affirming" initiative is optional. I think that asking "What is the UCC like?" is the wrong question... and that it is more helpful to ask "what is the individual congregation like?" In the end, the congregational polity and the openess to diversity seem to be the two connecting strands throughout the denomination as a whole. However, it is also probably true that within the UCC, those who are middle-to-left leaning hold the majority and that those who are right-leaning are in the minority. The first UCC I ever attended was in a very Evangelical part of the Midwest, in a small city... and it was pretty much a traditional Calvinist church except that in that congregation there were a minority of "progressives" who were into reading stuff like Campolo and ordaining women. At one point in that church's history, one of their pastors came out of the closet and the congregation sucessful voted to have them removed from the church. The second UCC I went to was practically the polar opposite of the first - and it was located in a very secular part of New England. The minister was female, the congregation voted to become "Open and Affirming" and to take part in the "God is still speaking" initiative. The message for Easter sunday openly questioned (if not denied) the bodily resurrection and, at times, I wondered if I was the only person there who held a High Christology. The third UCC I went to was a progressive-Evangelical place. Yes, there was a huge emphasis on the Social Gospel, very Campolo style... the main pastor was female, it was a multi-cultural and multi-racial place, people did not like George W Bush, it was Open & Affirming with a significant queer population... and at the same time, people believed in and worshipped the Risen Christ. The liturgy included Confession time, to repent of our sins... it was a place that believed in the Gospel message. ...It was, more or less, my cup of tea (so to speak). But my own experience here highlights why I am UCC... I used to be trying to find the "right" denomination (i.e. the one that agreed with me on everything I believe). But that doesn't really exist. But what can happen - is that a person can find a congregation of like-minded people, a family to be a part of. Since I'm in seminary, I need the UCC in the sense that I need the freedom to truly be myself without also denying everyone else in the Church who isn't like me.
Sure, no group is perfect, but some sermons just strike one as so immature, ignorant, or wrong-headed that you just feel like the approval by the congregation tells you what you need to know about fitting in. The local UCC isn't a welcoming or Still Speaking group, and this is a fairly conservative non-urban area.
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