| Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too. |
 | | 
30th August 2009, 12:28 PM
| | Veteran
   
 | | Join Date: 8th December 2008
Posts: 1,299
Blessings: 3,644,673 My Mood 
Reps: 45,773,809,592,680,992 (power: 45,773,809,592,685) | | Originally Posted by Cabal  You did say that Darwinism gets manipulated by people of both sides, and you felt the need to introduce this guy as a Marxist historian (as opposed to....?), so.....
Yeah, that's the point, he's a Marxist and therefore unbiased in asserting that Darwinism was based on capitalism... |
30th August 2009, 12:29 PM
|  | Defeated dad.
  
| | Join Date: 13th August 2009 Location: Steering Cabin
Posts: 784
Blessings: 2,065,985
Reps: 718,338,897,473 (power: 718,338,900) | | Originally Posted by marlowe007 According to the Marxist historian Robert Young, there is no distinction between Darwinism and Social Darwinism. This fact is not a denial of evolution itself, but an acknowledgment that Darwin's biological views attempted to bring man into nature and were built on the political economy of Malthus, Smith and others.
The scientific theory of evolution has absolutely nothing to do with the social model of darwinism, social or otherwise. Darwinism, according to wikipedia "has been applied to the claim that Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection can be used to understand the social endurance of a nation or country, social Darwinism commonly refers to ideas that predate Darwin's publication of On the Origin of Species."
Bascially, it is a social adaptation of the ideas of natural selection that has no bearing on either the validity of the theory of evolution, nor the morality thereof. A scientific theory is amoral. Trying to inject morality into it is just working from your own biases.  |
30th August 2009, 12:33 PM
| | Legend
26    
| | Join Date: 23rd July 2007 Location: London
Posts: 11,386
Blessings: 5,167,277 My Mood 
Reps: 205,146,621,849,477,600 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by marlowe007 Yeah, that's the point, he's a Marxist and therefore unbiased in asserting that Darwinism was based on capitalism...
...by equating it with social Darwinism.
And you really consider him unbiased?
You really want to run with this? |
30th August 2009, 12:39 PM
| | Veteran
| | Join Date: 8th December 2008
Posts: 1,299
Blessings: 3,644,673 My Mood
Reps: 45,773,809,592,680,992 (power: 45,773,809,592,685) | | Originally Posted by Cabal ...by equating it with social Darwinism.
Marx believed that Darwin had validated his ideologue, so this is not an argument that Marx would have made. |
30th August 2009, 12:41 PM
| | Legend
26
| | Join Date: 23rd July 2007 Location: London
Posts: 11,386
Blessings: 5,167,277 My Mood
Reps: 205,146,621,849,477,600 (power: 0) | | | Ok, before we carry on this discussion any further, when we're discussing Darwinism, I would hope that we're talking about Darwin's ideas/philosophies/ideas contemporary with Darwin etc only and not contemporary evolutionary theory? |
30th August 2009, 12:43 PM
| | Legend
26
| | Join Date: 23rd July 2007 Location: London
Posts: 11,386
Blessings: 5,167,277 My Mood
Reps: 205,146,621,849,477,600 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by marlowe007 Marx believed that Darwin had validated his ideologue, so this is not an argument that Marx would have made.
Fair enough, I didn't know that. How did Marx believe that Darwin validated him? |
30th August 2009, 02:10 PM
|  | Senior Member
29 
| | Join Date: 6th March 2007
Posts: 1,923
Blessings: 1,053,209
Reps: 3,978,662,265,867,660 (power: 3,978,662,265,873) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET What is embedded in the Theory of Evolution is the concept of Eugenics, a word you don't see evolutionists using here.
To put this in a form AV can understand: QV please
aka, Pot: Meet Kettle.
__________________
On "illegal" immigration:
"Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..." -The Statue of Liberty
On the alleged connection between Hitler and Atheism:
"For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties." -Hitler, Mein Kampf, Volume II, Chapter X
On gay marriage (or any other discrimination) and the Bible:
"God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean." -Paul the Apostle, Acts 10:28 |
30th August 2009, 02:19 PM
| | Legend
26
| | Join Date: 23rd July 2007 Location: London
Posts: 11,386
Blessings: 5,167,277 My Mood
Reps: 205,146,621,849,477,600 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by sbvera13 To put this in a form AV can understand: QV please
aka, Pot: Meet Kettle.
Well, I was going to make the point that we should ask the Amalekites what they thought of eugenics, but that article beat me to it  |
30th August 2009, 02:20 PM
| | Veteran
| | Join Date: 8th December 2008
Posts: 1,299
Blessings: 3,644,673 My Mood
Reps: 45,773,809,592,680,992 (power: 45,773,809,592,685) | | Originally Posted by Cabal Fair enough, I didn't know that. How did Marx believe that Darwin validated him?
[Darwin's work] … serves me as a natural scientific basis for the class struggle in history. (Marx) Darwin did not know what a bitter satire he wrote on mankind and especially on his countrymen, when he showed that free competition, and the struggle for existence, which the economists celebrate as the highest historical achievement, is the normal state of the animal kingdom. (Engels) |
30th August 2009, 02:45 PM
|  | Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
51   
| | Join Date: 31st March 2006 Location: Wales
Posts: 12,367
Blessings: 27,003,753 My Mood 
Reps: 1,984,022,293,840,305,920 (power: 1,984,022,293,840,324) | | Originally Posted by marlowe007 According to the Marxist historian Robert Young, there is no distinction between Darwinism and Social Darwinism. This fact is not a denial of evolution itself, but an acknowledgment that Darwin's biological views attempted to bring man into nature and were built on the political economy of Malthus, Smith and others.
I think this tells us more about Young's Marxism than it does about Evolution. [Darwin's work] … serves me as a natural scientific basis for the class struggle in history. (Marx)
Darwin did not know what a bitter satire he wrote on mankind and especially on his countrymen, when he showed that free competition, and the struggle for existence, which the economists celebrate as the highest historical achievement, is the normal state of the animal kingdom. (Engels)
So Marx saw Darwin as the basis for Marxism while Engels thought it described Capitalism?
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
When you come to the Ammonites, do not
harass them or provoke them. Deut 2:19
| | |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
| | |
