| General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology |
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25th August 2009, 11:36 AM
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Reps: 2,656,829,312,008,150 (power: 2,656,829,312,018) | | Originally Posted by Albion  One man's heretic is another man's religious hero. But in this case, Jesus wouldn't seem to be a dissenter from the Hebrew religion. Although some Jewish leaders opposed him as being the Messiah, the Messiah had never been identified as anyone else. And Jesus did adhere to the laws of that religion in instance after instance, as recorded in the Bible.
true. we know that Jesus kept the law to the fullest, but he was considered a heretic by those around him. why? a variety of reasons, some of which was new teaching, new ways of interepreting the text: "You have heard it said . . . but I say . . ." standing in bold opposition to the corrupt religious heirarchy of his day. and of course, claiming to be the son of God.
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25th August 2009, 11:40 AM
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Reps: 4,233,258,833,611,009,536 (power: 4,233,258,833,611,051) | | Originally Posted by PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter i looked up the definition of heretic and this is what i found: A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly dissents from the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic Church.
also found these synonyms: apostate, backslider, recreant, protestant, dissenter, skeptic, freethinker.
Yes, but remember that dictionaries tend to tell us what the word means as it is often used. When we are looking for a very technical definition, it is likely not to be there. Theologically speaking, a heretic is one who walks alone from the Church, but only on a defined matter and only if it is of real significance. And of course, it's not only the RCC which does this, although again it may be the church most known for heretic-hunting.
anyone who thinks for himself! jeesh! anyone other than catholic. anyone with some skeptical doubts. amazing.
thoughts?
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Bear in mind that "freethinker" in an earlier time meant someone who basically rejected all authority, not one who--as we'd say now--was interested in thinking for himself.  |
25th August 2009, 11:41 AM
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Reps: 408,034,338,943,195,200 (power: 408,034,338,943,206) | | Originally Posted by PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter anyone other than catholic.
Just to clarify, Catholics don't consider anyone not Catholic to be a heretic, but rather one who is formally Catholic who rejects a defined tenet of the faith. I could dig up an old post if you want of that definition from authoritative sources...
I would think that general definition would apply to any walk of Christianity...someone who rejects sound doctrine. Galatians 1:8-9 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary. To that which you received, let him be accursed. |
25th August 2009, 11:42 AM
| | Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20
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2 Timothy 1:13 What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus. |
25th August 2009, 11:47 AM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,804) | | Originally Posted by MrPolo Just to clarify, Catholics don't consider anyone not Catholic to be a heretic, but rather one who is formally Catholic who rejects a defined tenet of the faith.
As a former Catholic, who does reject the catholic doctrine, I would
be considered an heretic then?
JUST making sure that I understand what you're saying.
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25th August 2009, 11:50 AM
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Reps: 204,309,082,060,740,800 (power: 204,309,082,060,746) | | Originally Posted by PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter ? i thought it just made one lost. splitting hairs perhaps. i'm really interested in what makes one who considers himself a bible teacher a heretic.
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It is one who claims to be a Christian, but refuses to repent of their sins. Especially teachers. This is the minimal requirement that makes one a heretic. By refusing to repent, they are holding on to their old idols, instead of turning from them to worship God. By keeping their idols, their teaching is tainted; which opens the door for more and more compromising of sound doctrine.
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25th August 2009, 11:50 AM
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Reps: 2,656,829,312,008,150 (power: 2,656,829,312,018) | | Originally Posted by Albion Yes, but remember that dictionaries tend to tell us what the word means as it is often used. When we are looking for a very technical definition, it is likely not to be there. Theologically speaking, a heretic is one who walks alone from the Church, but only on a defined matter and only if it is of real significance. And of course, it's not only the RCC which does this, although again it may be the church most known for heretic-hunting.
Bear in mind that "freethinker" in an earlier time meant someone who basically rejected all authority, not one who--as we'd say now--was interested in thinking for himself.
right. agree completely. just trying to stir the pot!
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25th August 2009, 11:52 AM
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Reps: 221,273,070,689,620,448 (power: 221,273,070,689,632) | | Here is something very interesting I found. The word "heresy" in scripture comes from the greek word αἵρεσις and it is defined: 1) act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city
2) choosing, choice
3) that which is chosen
4) a body of men following their own tenets (sect or party)
a) of the Sadducees
b) of the Pharisees
c) of the Christians
5) dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims
Source: Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
According to this definition, all denominations (including Catholic) can be classified as heresy.  |
25th August 2009, 11:55 AM
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Reps: 2,656,829,312,008,150 (power: 2,656,829,312,018) | | Originally Posted by MrPolo Just to clarify, Catholics don't consider anyone not Catholic to be a heretic, but rather one who is formally Catholic who rejects a defined tenet of the faith. I could dig up an old post if you want of that definition from authoritative sources...
I would think that general definition would apply to any walk of Christianity...someone who rejects sound doctrine. Galatians 1:8-9 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary. To that which you received, let him be accursed.
Originally Posted by MrPolo Also
2 Timothy 1:13 What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
thanks for the clarification.
i'm having a bit of trouble with a heretic being someone who walks away from an established doctrine however. i don't remember who said it already in this thread but it went something like "One man's heretic is another man's hero." and it's true. a lot of people that were cited as heretics became the spiritual leaders of entire movements. Jesus being perhaps the greatest of all.
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25th August 2009, 12:00 PM
| | He's not a man! He's a machine!
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Reps: 2,656,829,312,008,150 (power: 2,656,829,312,018) | | Originally Posted by Thaeoles It is one who claims to be a Christian, but refuses to repent of their sins. Especially teachers. This is the minimal requirement that makes one a heretic. By refusing to repent, they are holding on to their old idols, instead of turning from them to worship God. By keeping their idols, their teaching is tainted; which opens the door for more and more compromising of sound doctrine.
not sure we're on the same page here. i get what you are saying, but am having trouble developing that thougt fully. someone who doesn't repent would be unregenerate and i suppose, if they held some kind of teaching/preaching office (God forbid) would be the worst of heretics. if that's what your saying??????
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