Origins TheologyForum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.
I have yet to find an answer to this question, myself. It certainly seems to imply that Adam and Eve were not created immortal and that physical death was a part of God's creation.
This has always been my interpretation as well.
As for what the Tree of Life is, I would suggest instead asking Who the Tree of Life is.
It is Christ
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As for what the Tree of Life is, I would suggest instead asking Who the Tree of Life is.
It is Christ
I heard this a lot. But I do not get it (a polite way to say that I do not agree).
Why would the tree symbolize the Christ? It is not a very logic interpretation. Why is the Christ there in the Garden?
Of course it was necessary, God doesn't play around with trivial matters.
The tree of life confirms the grace of God to Adam and Eve - thats just my lucky guess of course, because the bible does not actually make a clear statement for the why.
A study of the intricate details of the original hebrew would shed light on the topic, or perhaps you could just research commentaries on Gen 2 if you really want the answer.
Marktheblake, the tree of life is pretty important to the narrative. This is, to my way of thinking, an insurmountable problem for the modern literal interpretation that includes the doctrine that Adam and Eve were intrinsically immortal before the fall. Now, I may be wrong. This is why I ask what part the tree plays in the story if the story is both a factual account and Adam and Eve (to say nothing of plants and animals) were immortal until God cursed them.
Originally Posted by juvenissun
I heard this a lot. But I do not get it (a polite way to say that I do not agree).
Why would the tree symbolize the Christ? It is not a very logic interpretation. Why is the Christ there in the Garden?
I subscribe to PaladinValer's understanding as well. The point is that the tree is life to Adam and Eve. When they stop eating from it, they die. Of course, by what does man live if not by bread alone? The tree is in Revelation, too, and brings healing to the nations. All this is too perfect a reference to the Lord.
Long story short, Jesus, the incarnate Word, is life to us. God does not keep us alive with fruit. He makes us alive through fellowship with Him when we hear Him.
But maybe the story is literal and it was just a mystical tree that also bestowed life. Or maybe it didn't because that interpretation might allow for evolution.
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I subscribe to PaladinValer's understanding as well. The point is that the tree is life to Adam and Eve. When they stop eating from it, they die. Of course, by what does man live if not by bread alone? The tree is in Revelation, too, and brings healing to the nations. All this is too perfect a reference to the Lord.
Long story short, Jesus, the incarnate Word, is life to us. God does not keep us alive with fruit. He makes us alive through fellowship with Him when we hear Him.
But maybe the story is literal and it was just a mystical tree that also bestowed life. Or maybe it didn't because that interpretation might allow for evolution.
Willtor answered your querie so well I have very little to add besides quoting him.
Jesus is likened to vegetation on two major occasions. He is the True Vine and also the Tree and we the branches. That Tree is the Tree of Life, for He is our Life-giver, not just the bestower of our soul and spirit but also the bestower of New Life in Him and the Life Eternal that shall come at the end of this age. He was hung, don't forget, on a cross, which has always been likened to a tree, hence the cross itself is often called the Tree of Life as well, for it was His death upon it that made our salvation (and thus, everlasting life) even possible.
When we celebrate the Holy Eucharist, at least for us who believe in the Real Presence, we are partaking of the Fruit of the Tree of Life. That Blessed Food and Drink of His Body and Blood that nourishes our soul and our body, for it heals our soul and repairs our bodily nature, turning it from the sins of the flesh to things of Godliness.
The reason why God "hid" the Tree of Life from Adam and Eve is because they were no longer worthy. Remember what St. Paul says about those who receive the Eucharist without proper self-discernment? Same principle applies to Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve were mortal (with an immortal soul, of course), and would have eventually been able to partake of the Tree of Life (Christ) had they not chosen to disobey God. If they ignored the serpent, I would hazard to say (although I wouldn't make a doctrine or dogma out of this) that it is possible that God would have allowed them to eat of its Fruit before their end, as a gift of their fidel, faithful service. However, I admit that is but a pious opinion, nothing more, for in reality, they chose to disobey God. That is why death is still among us humans; because sadly they lost out on the opportunity of eternal life for all of us.
Yet God had a plan for us to still partake of that Fruit, and He enacted it immediately, making sure all preparations were made before, in due time, He sent His Christ, that Fruit, for us. Now, He is here for us.
Let us enjoy the Wedding Feast! Praise the Body and Blood, broken and spilled for us! Amen Amen Amen!
__________________ President of the WACCAV To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. For You are the Lord Most High, of great compassion, long-suffering, and very merciful, and You relent at human suffering. O Lord, according to Your great goodness You have promised repentance and forgiveness to those who have sinned against You, and in the multitude of Your mercies You have appointed repentance for sinners so that they may be saved.
-Prayer of Manasseh verse 7 (NRSV) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Marktheblake, the tree of life is pretty important to the narrative. This is, to my way of thinking, an insurmountable problem for the modern literal interpretation that includes the doctrine that Adam and Eve were intrinsically immortal before the fall. Now, I may be wrong. This is why I ask what part the tree plays in the story if the story is both a factual account and Adam and Eve (to say nothing of plants and animals) were immortal until God cursed them.
I subscribe to PaladinValer's understanding as well. The point is that the tree is life to Adam and Eve. When they stop eating from it, they die. Of course, by what does man live if not by bread alone? The tree is in Revelation, too, and brings healing to the nations. All this is too perfect a reference to the Lord.
Long story short, Jesus, the incarnate Word, is life to us. God does not keep us alive with fruit. He makes us alive through fellowship with Him when we hear Him.
But maybe the story is literal and it was just a mystical tree that also bestowed life. Or maybe it didn't because that interpretation might allow for evolution.
That is what I said in the earlier post. The fruit is for Adam and Eve to eat. So they could have abundant life. This is the answer to the OP.
As what are the tree and the fruit, or what do they look like, it is not important because we do not know. You may think it is the Word of God. I would agree with it. To be conformable with a literal interpretation, I can imagine that God's word, in this case, looks like a pear.
Willtor answered your querie so well I have very little to add besides quoting him.
Jesus is likened to vegetation on two major occasions. He is the True Vine and also the Tree and we the branches. That Tree is the Tree of Life, for He is our Life-giver, not just the bestower of our soul and spirit but also the bestower of New Life in Him and the Life Eternal that shall come at the end of this age. He was hung, don't forget, on a cross, which has always been likened to a tree, hence the cross itself is often called the Tree of Life as well, for it was His death upon it that made our salvation (and thus, everlasting life) even possible.
When we celebrate the Holy Eucharist, at least for us who believe in the Real Presence, we are partaking of the Fruit of the Tree of Life. That Blessed Food and Drink of His Body and Blood that nourishes our soul and our body, for it heals our soul and repairs our bodily nature, turning it from the sins of the flesh to things of Godliness.
The reason why God "hid" the Tree of Life from Adam and Eve is because they were no longer worthy. Remember what St. Paul says about those who receive the Eucharist without proper self-discernment? Same principle applies to Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve were mortal (with an immortal soul, of course), and would have eventually been able to partake of the Tree of Life (Christ) had they not chosen to disobey God. If they ignored the serpent, I would hazard to say (although I wouldn't make a doctrine or dogma out of this) that it is possible that God would have allowed them to eat of its Fruit before their end, as a gift of their fidel, faithful service. However, I admit that is but a pious opinion, nothing more, for in reality, they chose to disobey God. That is why death is still among us humans; because sadly they lost out on the opportunity of eternal life for all of us.
Yet God had a plan for us to still partake of that Fruit, and He enacted it immediately, making sure all preparations were made before, in due time, He sent His Christ, that Fruit, for us. Now, He is here for us.
Let us enjoy the Wedding Feast! Praise the Body and Blood, broken and spilled for us! Amen Amen Amen!
I don't think you addressed the concern.
Who is the Christ? Is the Christ God? The Spirit? or the Jesus? or something else?
I assume the Christ refers to Jesus.
OK, please tell me why should Jesus be in the Garden?
The tree of life is the tree of life. It is not Jesus, not God, not the Holy Spirit.
That is what I said in the earlier post. The fruit is for Adam and Eve to eat. So they could have abundant life. This is the answer to the OP.
As what are the tree and the fruit, or what do they look like, it is not important because we do not know. You may think it is the Word of God. I would agree with it. To be conformable with a literal interpretation, I can imagine that God's word, in this case, looks like a pear.
Originally Posted by juvenissun
I don't think you addressed the concern.
Who is the Christ? Is the Christ God? The Spirit? or the Jesus? or something else?
I assume the Christ refers to Jesus.
OK, please tell me why should Jesus be in the Garden?
The tree of life is the tree of life. It is not Jesus, not God, not the Holy Spirit.
Recall that Jesus was around before he was born. He wasn't called Jesus or the Christ, but he is coeternal with the Father and the Spirit. St. John calls him the Word. He is God's eternal Word and wisdom. It is through him that we have fellowship with the Father. I don't think this was true only after he died and rose again. God has always related to us through His Word.
This is why he was in the garden.
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After the Incarnation, Jesus.
Before, the Preincarnate Logos; the Divine Son.
Is the Christ God?
A somewhat silly question; of course He is.
The Spirit?
No. I do not accept Sabellianism.
or the Jesus?
Jesus was born. There was a time when Jesus was not. See my explanation above.
or something else?
A very odd question. What gave you the idea that I could have possibly thought otherwise?
I assume the Christ refers to Jesus.
No. Jesus was born. This is the Mystery of the Incarnation, of which without we cannot possibly have salvation or the Christian religion. I am referring to the preincarnate Logos; the Divine Son.
OK, please tell me why should Jesus be in the Garden?
Theophany.
The tree of life is the tree of life. It is not Jesus, not God, not the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is the Tree of Life. The Bible seems clear.
Mind you, you seem to imply that the Holy Spirit and Jesus are not God in the above statement. Clarify?
__________________ President of the WACCAV To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. For You are the Lord Most High, of great compassion, long-suffering, and very merciful, and You relent at human suffering. O Lord, according to Your great goodness You have promised repentance and forgiveness to those who have sinned against You, and in the multitude of Your mercies You have appointed repentance for sinners so that they may be saved.
-Prayer of Manasseh verse 7 (NRSV) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
It's not restricted to Genesis, this Tree of Life issue:
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
[Rev 22:1-2 ESV]
But I thought everything was all already fixed!
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And who that has understanding will suppose that the first, and second, and third day, and the evening and the morning, existed without a sun, and moon, and stars? - Origen, 215AD [De Principiis 4.1.16]
Recall that Jesus was around before he was born. He wasn't called Jesus or the Christ, but he is coeternal with the Father and the Spirit. St. John calls him the Word. He is God's eternal Word and wisdom. It is through him that we have fellowship with the Father. I don't think this was true only after he died and rose again. God has always related to us through His Word.
This is why he was in the garden.
I am not saying Jesus is not in the Garden, if Jesus, God, Spirit are together there. I am saying that Jesus should not be the tree, which sits there, while God and Spirit may go wherever They like to.
I stick with some literal meanings of a tree. A tree is something which has basic properties of a tree. For example, it does not move around.
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