| Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too. |
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23rd August 2009, 01:21 PM
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Reps: 1,124,929,859,130,509,824 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff  Yes, yes, but I'm talking about self-identification of Christians to other people, not Jesus. I'm not Jesus, you're not Jesus, the person down the street isn't Jesus. So we can only really rely on self-identification.
Fine. You rely on self-identification and I'll rely on the objective and authoritative standard given by scripture. Oh come now. You're telling me you don't know how religion plays a role in political issues like abortion or gay marriage?
In other words, you can't answer the question. I assume you are talking about Matthew 7? If you ask me, that only muddies things further.
What part of "depart from Me for I never knew you" do you not understand? |
23rd August 2009, 01:35 PM
|  | PeteAce - In memory of WinAce
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Reps: 9,311,669,886,675,212 (power: 9,311,669,886,693) | | Originally Posted by Bro_Sam Fine. You rely on self-identification and I'll rely on the objective and authoritative standard given by scripture.
It's not objective, however. In other words, you can't answer the question.
Are you really telling me you don't know how religion factors into gay marriage or abortion debates in politics? How many people oppose gay marriage because it goes against their Biblical beliefs? Ditto with abortion? Or sex ed. education? Or teaching evolution in schools?
I mean, I can certainly cite data to support this if you want, but I think anyone who pays attention to American politics wouldn't need me to spell out something so patently obvious. What part of "depart from Me for I never knew you" do you not understand?
Again, I'm not Jesus. And neither are you.
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Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution |
23rd August 2009, 01:44 PM
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Reps: 1,124,929,859,130,509,824 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff It's not objective, however.
Actually, it is objective and the fact that you claim that they're not objective without even knowing what they are tells me that you don't really care. Are you really telling me you don't know how religion factors into gay marriage or abortion debates in politics? How many people oppose gay marriage because it goes against their Biblical beliefs? Ditto with abortion? Or sex ed. education? Or teaching evolution in schools?
If you don't want to answer the question, that's up to you, I suppose. Again, I'm not Jesus. And neither are you.
But Jesus is Jesus and He has told us how we are to define who is and is not a Christian. |
23rd August 2009, 01:51 PM
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Reps: 718,338,897,473 (power: 718,338,900) | | Originally Posted by Bro_Sam If you don't want to answer the question, that's up to you, I suppose.
Couldn't you be any more vague, because I don't think you're quite vague enough. The question was "what about them?" and that question was answered in Pete's response to that post. |
23rd August 2009, 01:53 PM
|  | The Moon is a reflection of the MorningStar
 
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Reps: 56,734,881,133,185,528 (power: 56,734,881,133,195) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET I'll tell you what, MoonLancer --- you guys keep on preaching how beneficial evolution is to the "species"
Evolution is a fact of life, not a philosophy. Through natural selection organisms that for whatever reason are unable to reproduce do not pass on there genes where as the ones that are able to reproduce, do. This leads to changes over time with organisms becoming more and more capable and adapted to its environment.
This is a FACT.
people that fall and reach terminal velocity tend to go splat. Everyone knows that gravity is not a philosophy or something its a natural process that occurs. Evolution is no different. |
23rd August 2009, 01:58 PM
| | The Moon is a reflection of the MorningStar
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Reps: 56,734,881,133,185,528 (power: 56,734,881,133,195) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET I call that the Sceva Effect.
Satan goes after the Christians, not the non-Christians.
LOL that's just loaded with bs! We should all become atheist then. we would live in a utopia. |
23rd August 2009, 02:19 PM
| | PeteAce - In memory of WinAce
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Reps: 9,311,669,886,675,212 (power: 9,311,669,886,693) | | Originally Posted by Bro_Sam Actually, it is objective and the fact that you claim that they're not objective without even knowing what they are tells me that you don't really care.
It's not objective, because in the end it rests on the judgement of Jesus. Which is basically a supernatural invocation that everyone can interpret however they want. If you don't want to answer the question, that's up to you, I suppose.
I notice you skipped my next paragraph where I linked to a journal paper about homosexual attitudes (including civil unions) and religion.
Like I said, I can pull out plenty of citations for this if you really want me to. I have journal access and I'm not afraid to use it.  But Jesus is Jesus and He has told us how we are to define who is and is not a Christian.
Which different people tend to interpret differently. Hence, you get all these individuals/groups each claiming they are the True Christians TM and everyone else isn't.
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Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution |
23rd August 2009, 05:26 PM
|  | SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff The US has a murder rate that's about double that of the Czech Republic. Yet the Czech Republic is about 50% atheist/agnostic/non-religious. Originally Posted by AV1611VET I call that the Sceva Effect. Originally Posted by MoonLancer We should all become atheist then. we would live in a utopia.
The Czech Republic, with a murder rate 1/2 that of the U.S., is a 'utopia' to you, MoonLancer?
__________________ GOD SAID IT -- THAT SETTLES IT
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23rd August 2009, 05:53 PM
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This was posted by Pete Harcoff
"The US has a murder rate that's about double that of the Czech Republic. Yet the Czech Republic is about 50% atheist/agnostic/non-religious."
Just for reference. This is not a great example becasue the population of the USA is 30 times that of the Czech Republic.Czech Republic has a population of a little over 10 million and the population of the USA is over 300 million. Canada however might be closer to being a utopia. What do you say Pete?
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I asked Jesus "How much do you love me?" He answered "This much". Then He stretched out His arms and died for me.
If you have everything but Jesus, you have nothing. If you have nothing but Jesus, you have everything.
Have you given much thought to where you are going to spend eternity? |
23rd August 2009, 05:58 PM
|  | Life is an experiment, experience it!
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Reps: 21,130,497,817,639,480 (power: 21,130,497,817,648) | | Originally Posted by Bro_Sam Actually, it is objective and the fact that you claim that they're not objective without even knowing what they are tells me that you don't really care.
Actually it is subjective (if you are going by the fruits of the spirit). 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
It is subjective because you have to decide what constitutes each quality. Of course many people who do not consider themselves Christian have the above qualities. Does that make them Christian? If we go by the fruit of the spirit as a guideline to decide who is Christian or not, how many fruits do they need to be considered a Christian? If they have no patience are their souls doomed? What about atheists that display symptoms of the spiritual fruit? If you don't want to answer the question, that's up to you, I suppose.
He did answer the question. Religion and politics go hand in hand, especially when politicians are trying to get votes. Religion has influenced whether homosexual couples get the same rights as heterosexual couples. Do you really not know? But Jesus is Jesus and He has told us how we are to define who is and is not a Christian.
But as with all scripture it requires interpretation by a fallible human being.
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Thalidomide, Pluto, and Challenger. Not a good argument against science.
Slug's 1st Law of YECism- Genesis 1-9 must be interpreted literally.
Slug's 2nd Law of YECism- Any other verses can be interpreted liberally to support the 1st Law.
Slug's 3rd Law of YECism- Make up any extra-Biblical claim, no matter how wild, to wave-away evidence in violation of the 1st Law.
Divinity= selflessness rather than selfishness. What is more selfish than sending somebody to hell because they don't love you? | | |
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