When I heard about the tornado, and then the results of the vote, I was sure that someone would try to connect the two and proclaim that the wind was God's judgment upon the ELCA.
I can suggest at least two other ways in which we might interpret the tornado in Minneapolis.
1. The tornado took place before the vote. If I've done the math correctly, the Social Statement was adopted with only slightly better than a 2/3 majority. I think it was about 6 votes. Because of the high winds, the convention center security personnel encouraged everyone to enter the hall where the voting took place. Being an inner room without windows, it was the safest place to be. So, God may have been using the tornado to assure that the necessary number of voters were present in the hall to adopt the social statement.
2. "...the Lord was not in the wind...." 1 Kings 19:11
Edited to add: Apparently my math was faulty. The media are reporting that the Social Statement was adopted by a single vote. God could have prevented all this by taking out just a single voter with the wind storm. Instead, the storm assured that every single voter was on the floor of the assembly. Things that make you go, "hmmmmm..."
__________________ Job 13:7
Last edited by D.W.Washburn; 20th August 2009 at 03:32 PM.
Is this the direction the discussion has turned now? Trying to discern the mind of God and determine whether a Midwestern tornado in the middle of summer is a sign of God's disapproval of homosexuality? Seriously? God help us all.
Of course, D.W.'s option #2 is clearly the only sensible explanation. But to respond to a point in his #1, would there really have been delegates who would not have been present for this vote? If so, that's just unconscionable to me. I understand that not every delegate is on the floor for every vote, but on a matter that's been as public and notoriously contentious as this one, it would have been an inexcusable dereliction of duty not to be present for this vote.
Of course, D.W.'s option #2 is clearly the only sensible explanation. But to respond to a point in his #1, would there really have been delegates who would not have been present for this vote? If so, that's just unconscionable to me. I understand that not every delegate is on the floor for every vote, but on a matter that's been as public and notoriously contentious as this one, it would have been an inexcusable dereliction of duty not to be present for this vote.
Well, my tongue was in my cheek when I typed that. And no, I seriously doubt that any voting member would have missed that particular vote. But if the hand of God can be seen in the tornado, it might have been shepherding the voters to the bar of the assembly, not trying to scare them into changing their votes.
Someone has pointed out that though the tornado struck before the vote was taken, when the results of the vote were announced, the sun came out.
By the way, did anyone else notice the way that John Piper twisted Luke 13:4-5 to make his point? That Scripture, properly applied to this situation, should have been interpreted more along these lines:
Did you not hear about the Lutheran Churchwide Assembly that was nearly struck by a tornado? And do you think that those Lutherans were worse sinners than anyone else in Minneapolis. No. I tell you, but unless you also repent, you will all...perish.
The point is not that God was punishing those 18 at Siloam. The point is that human life is short and fragile and our only hope is to trust in God who alone is eternal and true. I am quite sure that the 676 Lutherans who, after prayer, deliberation and consideration, voted to approve the Social Statement, did so, putting their faith in God.
Of course, the 338 who voted against the Social Statement were also putting their faith in God, and there's the rub. Can people of good faith, whose consciences and whose understanding of Scripture lead them to different conclusions still live together in a single church body? The task force would like that to be the case.
So the fact that the meteorologist are baffled by a tornado that came out of nowhere and in the middle of a city that generally does not experience tornadoes, during a time of year when tornadoes are not common, basically comes down on top of the building where the assembly is being held, rips the steeple of the top of the ELCA church down the street (leaving the cross on display upside down) could not have been a sign from God!?!? Do you not think God has His hands involved in our world any more? And All of this happens right before 2/3 (or 66.666666666%) of the people at the assembly vote to pass the statement. All I can say is wow! You are unable to believe that this could mean something, yet you claim to believe that we have an all powerful God who loves us so deeply He gave His Son to die on the cross for us. But He would not give us a sign to help encourage us to return to the right path!?!?
In the community where I live, there was an incident late in the 19th century. The Baptist church was holding baptisms at the river. The majority of the church members were standing on a bridge to observe. The bridge collapsed and most of those standing on it were drowned.
Where they worse sinners than anyone else in town? Was this a clear sign from God of anything other than the brevity and fragility of human life? I can assure you that those Baptists, devasted by so many deaths, still continued to worship as they had. They did not take it as a sign.
About twelve years ago (I'd have to look it up to be sure) in a small city not far from here, a summer tornado struck and demolished a Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod church building. It was the only building damaged, but it was well-and-truly destroyed. It stood near the Interstate where it could be seen by everyone driving by. I am quite sure that, at that time, the congregation kept in line with LC-MS policy regarding close-Communion, ordination of men only, etc. Was the demolition of their building a sign of God's displeasure with either that congregation or its larger church body?
Or was it just a tornado?
I do, by the way, take the Minneapolis tornado as a clear sign that we are to live lives of faith in the saving grace of God revealed in Christ Jesus...but I'm repeating myself.
I'm not saying that every natural disaster is punishment for those who are caused suffering. I do believe that sometimes God uses His unlimited powers to send us messages. I think this was a loving message from God to warn us that we need to remain loyal to the scriptures (it is another miracle that nobody was harmed). I honestly do not see how a believer could interpret it any other way, though I am NOT claiming that the fact that you do not believe this is a sign from God proves that you are not a believer.
So the fact that the meteorologist are baffled by a tornado that came out of nowhere and in the middle of a city that generally does not experience tornadoes, during a time of year when tornadoes are not common, basically comes down on top of the building where the assembly is being held, rips the steeple of the top of the ELCA church down the street (leaving the cross on display upside down) could not have been a sign from God!?!?
No.
And since when is southern Minnesota an area that hardly experiences tornadoes, or summer a time when they generally don't happen? Minnesota may be on the very edge of tornado alley, and the end of summer may be the tail end of the season in which they're common, but nothing about this is really baffling to any meteorologists. There were thunderstorm systems moving throughout the Midwest yesterday (just as the allegedly "baffled" meteorologists had been forecasting all along). It's not like it was a July blizzard in Arizona that we're talking about here.
Originally Posted by Mr_E
Do you not think God has His hands involved in our world any more? And All of this happens right before 2/3 (or 66.666666666%) of the people at the assembly vote to pass the statement. All I can say is wow! You are unable to believe that this could mean something, yet you claim to believe that we have an all powerful God who loves us so deeply He gave His Son to die on the cross for us. But He would not give us a sign to help encourage us to return to the right path!?!?
Don't equate a refusal to give credence to nonsense with a denial that God is active in the world.
Since when have Lutherans understood this to be the manner in which God works in the world, anyway? We confess God's self-revelation in the world in the person of Jesus Christ, for the redemption of the entire world and everybody and everything in it. Given that, trying to guess which natural events are "acts of God" (and what those acts are trying to tell us) is nothing more than an exercise in good, old-fashioned human pride. Has God really told you that the tornado was a warning against the purported evils of homosexuality? How did God do that? And, if God hasn't actually told you anything about this tornado, on what basis are you claiming to have any sort of privileged access to the will of God? Answers: God hasn't, and you don't.
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