For New ChristiansThis forum is for new Christians to ask questions and be encouraged by other Christians. Here you can post your questions and talk about issues relating to new believers.
no translator on earth can guarantee that the words they choose for English versions accurately represent the words in the copied manuscripts; subsequently, they cannot guarantee that the words they choose accurately represent the original words.
of course there are nuances in words, but reading statement this would lead anyone almost to despair that what we have today even is in fact God's word to us...
and if this line of reasoning were pushed to it's logical conclusion, Reductio ad absurdum, if it is really true that translators cannot guarantee that the words they choose accurately represent the original words, then it would follow that you could use any English word to translate any Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek word and still have God's word!!! And even if one were to compare 30 English translations to one another, it wouldn't matter because none of those versions supposedly would be able to convey and guarantee that the words they choose for English versions accurately represent the words in the copied manuscripts; for subsequently, they cannot guarantee that the words they choose accurately represent the original words. And if this is the case, then it would not matter how many English translations you compared one another to, in the end none of them would be conveying the word of God either singly or collectively.
Jesus believed that God's truth (conveyed by concrete meanings for words) could be delivered by print, by using words, as He held the OT to be the very word of God, every single individual word... and Jesus, being God, cannot be mistaken about this, for even by Jesus' day they were dealing with copies of copies of manuscripts, and they were also living with and using not only copies of copies by also a translation from Hebrew to Greek in what we today call the LXX... in any case the Jews were very precise about their copying techniques, so we can be very confident that they have indeed been faithful copyists throughout the many years since the original word from God came...... Jesus never seemed to doubt that the OT was able to convey truth to us and that these words were in fact God's words... and the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls is so important because it took us back a thousand years earlier than our previous manuscripts had been able to do, and yet, when comparing those manuscripts with those we already had, we see an amazing (one could almost say providential) agreement between the the manuscripts.....
individual words must mean something, they cannot mean anything because then they would then in effect, mean nothing..!!!! lol.... and since words all convey meanings, though they may be complex or simple, communication via words is still possible, we are typing to one another with the understanding that though we may at times not totally or perfectly understand one another, that generally people will be understanding and "getting" what it is that we are trying to communicate...
in the end it is not just a "general message" that the bible is trying to convey, but instead is a very precise word from God, where each and every word is itself important and further, can be understood... if not, it is hard to imagine why God would have bothered communicating to us is this way in the first place... and further, if God is indeed "in all of this" then it also seems unliekly that He would have allowed His words to become lost such that we are now really lost, and have no reliable word from God on which to depend...
1Co 2:12-13 ESV Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. (13) And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual."
2Ti 3:14-17 ESV But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it (15) and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (16) All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (17) that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
So it seems that the Bible itself teaches the verbal plenary view of inspiration, that is God's inspiration extends to the very words themselves, and all of the words, all of the Bible is directly inspired and given to us by God. If we really can't know what the original manuscripts said, then there really is no guarantee that you are even reading God's word at all. But the science of textual criticism lets us know, by comparing manuscripts with one another, that though there are slight variations, by seeing where the manuscripts agree, and by looking at the age of the manuscripts, we can get back to the originals, we have large areas of agreement among the manuscripts which enables us, in turn, to know what the original manuscripts said.
Of course we no longer have copies penned by the writers of the NT or the OT, and God probably did not allow that because of the curious tendency in humans to worship relics and they would no doubt elevate the physical manuscripts to an unholy place, while neglecting the message the manuscripts themselves would be giving. But just because we do not have the original manuscripts it doesn't follow that we can't know what the original manuscripts said.
just my thoughts....
blessings,
ken
__________________ "The venerable dead are waiting in my library to entertain me and relieve me from the nonsense of surviving mortals." Samuel Davies 1723-1761
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes." Erasumus 1466-1536
If I want to compare translations I can do it online.
It's so wonderful to have this, it is finally sinking in that an online Bible is "real" Bible reading. You can't beat the speed of finding things, or catching associated verses.
Printed Bibles are expensive these days. You don't need to overwhelm yourself with great resources unless you love to have lots of books around. Make sure you have one that you will actually read. It's not a conquering process, but a lifelong trail.
I drooled over getting a study Bible until I got it. The maps and resources were great, but the commentaries cluttered the page, and some comments were opinionated doctrine and meaningless filler. Still, the explanations would be helpful for grasping new information.
The Bible that always drew me to read more was the Jerusalem Bible -- some books were written out like poetry, with giant margins. That made the book too giant to bring places, but it was beautiful to read from.
This small book is not copyright-protected. It is being widely translated and printed
I would stir clear of this Bible version --- New World Translation Bible --- it is the Jehovah Witness's Bible.
I have the website which has this information.
Evaluating the New World Translation
We said that a good translation tells us the exact thoughts of the original Bible writers. The Old Testament writers used God's name over 6,800 times. A good translation of the Bible should use God's name in the Old Testament. Regrettably, many Bible translations today do not. However, the New World Translation uses the name Jehovah over 6,800 times in the Old Testament. In this area, the New World Translation has correctly told us the meaning intended by the original writers.
The translators of the New World Translation have used the name Jehovah 237 times in the New Testament. There is no New Testament Greek manuscript evidence that shows that the Hebrew name of God was ever used. However, if the Hebrew name of God had been used, then there would need to have been an explanation for its removal. There is no historic record of any debate among the early Christians regarding the removal of the Hebrew name of God from their Scriptures. The translators of the New World Translation mislead their readers. With no Greek manuscript or historical evidence, they changed the word Lord that was written by the inspired New Testament writers to Jehovah in 237 verses.
We also find serious inconsistency in the translators' use of Jehovah in the New Testament. They say that they will insert Jehovah when an Old Testament verse using the Hebrew name of God is quoted. In almost all cases they follow their rule. However, when 1 Peter 3:15 quotes an Old Testament verse using the Hebrew name of God, it is omitted in the New World Translation because it would identify Jesus as God. When Philippians 2:10-11 gives qualities to Jesus that can only be true of God, they do not acknowledge that the verse is an Old Testament quotation.
The translators are also inconsistent in their use of Hebrew versions. In most instances, when a Hebrew version uses the Hebrew name of God, they insert Jehovah into the New Testament verse. On the other hand, even though seven Hebrew versions use the Hebrew name of God in 1 Peter 3:15, they still do not insert Jehovah as noted above. If the translators had inserted Jehovah in this verse, it would have identified Jesus with Jehovah. Many Hebrew versions have used the Hebrew name of God to identify Jesus with Jehovah. However, the translators of the New World Translation have avoided making that identification in their own translation.
In certain passages, words have actually been inserted to change the meaning of the Bible. When talking about Jesus, Colossians 1:16 says, "For in Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth." However, the New World Translation says, "By means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth." Because Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was created as the first son of the Father, they have added the word "other" to this verse. The word "other" has been inserted four times in this chapter so that they can teach that Jesus was created. In verses 16 and 17 the New World Translation says, "All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist."
Sometimes the translators of the New World Translation give the same word from the original Greek language two different meanings so that they do not identify Jesus with Jehovah. Their own Greek New Testament uses a single word to mean "obeisance." When the New World Translation uses this word about the Lord Jesus, they translate it as "obeisance. However, when they translate the same word about Jehovah, they translate it as "worship."
When reading the Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation it is obvious that they have published a Bible for the purpose of teaching their own doctrine. They have done this by changing the meaning of the most authentic ancient Greek manuscripts of the New Testament.
The New World Translation has failed the test that says that the best Bible translation will tell us the exact thoughts of the original writers of the Hebrew and Greek portions of the Bible in a way that is easily understood in our own language. The New World Translation does not accurately translate what the New Testament writers said about Jesus.
The Good News
Jesus died for our sins so that we can be completely forgiven. He came back from the dead to give us new life. If you do not know God, Jesus will become your Savior if you believe that His death and resurrection is all that you need to satisfy God. (Read Romans 5:1-21 in your Bible.)
Does it matter who Jesus is? It certainly does. If Jesus is God, then He has the power to give us His perfection and we will someday live with God. Of course, we must learn to be obedient to Him in the lessons He wants to teach us. But we do not need to work to earn Salvation. Salvation is God's free gift to us when we have faith in Jesus' death and resurrection. The Bible says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Because their Bible has been changed, Jehovah's Witnesses do not know that Salvation is God's free gift. Since they do not believe that Jesus can give them His perfection as God, they think that they must do good works in order to earn Salvation. They hope that if they do enough, they will live forever in God's Kingdom.
Yes, it does matter whether Jesus was just a perfect man, or if He is really God. Read your Bible to learn what it says about Jesus and why your Salvation depends only on Him.
This small book is not copyright-protected. It is being widely translated and printed in large numbers in other languages.
It hasn't been mentioned here, so I'll suggest the New Living Translation, 2007 edition. It's easy to read and understand. I can tell you to NEVER hang all your theology on one translation, especially on one verse of one translation. I use the NIV, KJV, NASB, Amplified, the Message, NKJV and of course the NLT. I also highly recommend a good commentary, such as "The Bible Knowledge Commentary" by the Dallas Theological Seminary.
I like the NIV myself. For advanced study, a KJV is a good compliment to it, as many older study materials use it.
__________________ Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
- Proverbs 30:5-6
I am currently reading "Women of Faith Amazing Freedom Bible". It's the New Century Version (NCV). I also have NIV, NLT, HCSB, NKJV, and KJV (Which is used in my church). My pastor once told me that it's good to have different versions to use for comparison and understanding and to read whichever you feel most comfortable with as long as you are reading His word. I would suggest going to any Christian bookstore and look at several different versions to determine which is going to be easier for you to read and which you're actually going to be able to read often.
Last edited by MizzB; 28th October 2009 at 10:06 AM.
Personally, I like the Today's New International Version (TNIV) for new Christians. It is a gender-accurate translation which means that instead of translating all verses referring to people as male nouns, it refers to them as what the original Greek text says. If the Greek is referring to males, it'll be translated as a male noun. If the Greek is referring to females, it'll be translated as a female noun. If the Greek text is referring to people in general, it'll be translated as a generic term for people in general such as "people" or "person". Also, the TNIV is very accurate and uses the latest scholarship in it's translation process. You can read more about the Today's New International Version by doing a quick Google search for it. The TNIV is good for basic study as well though I'd recommend a more literal translation for deeper study. But since you're a new Christian, basic study is all you need to be doing for now and so the TNIV will be perfect for you.
I'll also recommend the New Living Translation (NLT) but I recommend it only for general casual reading, not study. The reason? It's a paraphrase and so it is not translated with a dynamic equivalence method like the TNIV is. Dynamic equivalence basically means that it was translated using a method between a literal translation and a paraphrase translation.
God Bless and may you be blessed in your study of the Bible.
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Whichever version of the Bible a student chooses to study, they should be careful that they don't force it to say something they want to hear instead of listening to what it has to say; and in so doing, construe the Bible's words to mean things the words don't say in writing.
†. 2Pet 3:15-16 . . Consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation— as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand; which the ignorant, and the vacillating twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
I use KJV 
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