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  #21  
Old 4th September 2009, 05:01 PM
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Thanks for the compliment. I've studied this in depth in the past, but I hope I approach it humbly as many great theologians have grappled with this as well.

The papal bull that claimed the orders of Anglican clergy invalid based on the LANGUAGE used in the ordination rite as far as claiming that it had last it's sacrificial nature. The problem becomes then that by this same line of reasoning, older RC ordination rites and all of Orthodoxy's ordination rites are invalid as there is not explicit sacrificial language in those rites. That presents a mighty problem for the logical reasoning of Apostolicae Curae. I believe the historical precedent for Apostolicae Curae is rooted in Counter-Reformation polemics against Lutheran/Reformed theology (as noted in the article I posted). Using such reasoning to claim Anglican ordination as invalid is a bit of a slippery slope.

You're right about some low church Anglicans not emphasizing the historic Episcopate. Yet, except in the Diocese of Sydney (Australia), the historic Episcopate has been maintained and its functions maintained. While some folks may not totally agree with the offices of bishops, all of the autocephalous churches that comprise the Anglican Communion are led by bishops. Regardless of individual lay thought, the bishops still teach and exercise authority. Isn't there also a strong lay movement in the Roman Catholic Church as well? One might argue that some of your same points about that particular group as well.

Thanks for the good discussion.
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  #22  
Old 5th September 2009, 11:31 AM
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I think this should be reformulated in the sense that Anglicans, Orthodox and Catholics regard themselves as having the four 'marks' of the true Christian church; 'One, 'Holy', 'Catholic' and 'Apostolic.' Of course the churches cannot agree that all churches or Christian sects satisfy these criteria and hence are 'churches' in the true sense. This is a complicated and often divisive issue, especially if churches claim each other's sacraments or ordained ministry are not valid. While Christ's overall body is divided, such disputes will no doubt continue. I hope they can be resolved though in a spirit of charity and patience, rather than hostility.
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  #23  
Old 8th September 2009, 03:53 AM
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Interesting discussion. I'm glad I asked this question.

I wonder if the term "orthodox Christians" would be appropriate for Roman Catholics, Anglicans, and Eastern Orthodox.
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