Are Anglicans Catholics?

Thanks for the compliment. I've studied this in depth in the past, but I hope I approach it humbly as many great theologians have grappled with this as well.

The papal bull that claimed the orders of Anglican clergy invalid based on the LANGUAGE used in the ordination rite as far as claiming that it had last it's sacrificial nature. The problem becomes then that by this same line of reasoning, older RC ordination rites and all of Orthodoxy's ordination rites are invalid as there is not explicit sacrificial language in those rites. That presents a mighty problem for the logical reasoning of Apostolicae Curae. I believe the historical precedent for Apostolicae Curae is rooted in Counter-Reformation polemics against Lutheran/Reformed theology (as noted in the article I posted). Using such reasoning to claim Anglican ordination as invalid is a bit of a slippery slope.

You're right about some low church Anglicans not emphasizing the historic Episcopate. Yet, except in the Diocese of Sydney (Australia), the historic Episcopate has been maintained and its functions maintained. While some folks may not totally agree with the offices of bishops, all of the autocephalous churches that comprise the Anglican Communion are led by bishops. Regardless of individual lay thought, the bishops still teach and exercise authority. Isn't there also a strong lay movement in the Roman Catholic Church as well? One might argue that some of your same points about that particular group as well.

Thanks for the good discussion.

I think this should be reformulated in the sense that Anglicans, Orthodox and Catholics regard themselves as having the four 'marks' of the true Christian church; 'One, 'Holy', 'Catholic' and 'Apostolic.' Of course the churches cannot agree that all churches or Christian sects satisfy these criteria and hence are 'churches' in the true sense. This is a complicated and often divisive issue, especially if churches claim each other's sacraments or ordained ministry are not valid. While Christ's overall body is divided, such disputes will no doubt continue. I hope they can be resolved though in a spirit of charity and patience, rather than hostility.

Interesting discussion. I'm glad I asked this question.

I wonder if the term "orthodox Christians" would be appropriate for Roman Catholics, Anglicans, and Eastern Orthodox.

Originally Posted by Andrew B.

Some people have told me that Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Catholics are all Catholics. Do you agree?

## Yes. The word has a variety of senses, of which "Christian in union with the See of Rome" is only one. Anglicanism is a reformed type of Catholic Christianity, retaining some "RC" features, while rejecting others as untrue to the Christian Mystery or as harmful or as an obstacle to it.

No-one ever mentions the ancient pre-Chalcedonian Churches: but they are Catholic. People talk about Protestant or Catholic missionaries - the Nestorians were once spread over a very large slice of Asia: Ther were Nestorian Christians in Tibet 11 centuries ago, and in China from 635.

Robin Williams: Anglicanism is Catholic lite

Just thought I'd throw that out.

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Apostolic churches are as close as you are going to come. Catholics, Orthodox (Eastern and Oriental), Anglicans (including Methodists), and Lutherans all come under that rubric. We all think that we are the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

Anglicans of the 19th century had an idea that helped me. It was called branch theory. It held that there were four branches of the one church, severed as a result of several schisms.

There are many discussions going one between among these groups with regard to what it would take for each body to be in full communion with the others, or at least accept others as Christren brothers and sisters.

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Eastern Orthodox believe that they are the only orthodox Christians.

Catholics under the leadership of the Bishop of Rome believe that they are the only Catholics.

Anglicans sometimes claim to be Catholic and sometmes Protestant ands sometimes the Middle Way between the two.

Do you mean the Oriental Orthodox churches?

Anglicans are "catholic" but not "Catholic"; but you already knew that.

I most certainly say YES to the question if Anglicans are Catholic! However, as stated quite eloquently and more clearly than I can (lol!), they are not Catholic in the ROMAN sense of the word. But, they hold to the sacraments, apostolic succession, and, probably the most obvious sign of their Catholicism, the creeds! Which, coincidentally, most if not all mainline, orthodox (not eastern, I mean orthodox in theology) Christian accept the creeds, whether Baptist, Methodist, Wesleyan, etc etc etc. They may not recite them every week, but the practice is there. In that sense, they are Catholic too. In my opinion, most Protestant churches (the non liturgical) are missing the crucial sacrament of Holy Eucharist and proper Holy Orders.
I've been on a faith journey myself for a while now, and I've pretty much narrowed it down to either the RCC (which I still am a member of), the Orthodox Churches, the Anglican communion, or the Lutheran Church/s. These, to me, are the churches most close to the Creeds and Sacraments. May God guide me to where He wants me!

Yes