In addition to the things I've been saying in this thread, I just had a thought:
It is the legalists who make it hard on Christians who have their own personal convictions and are truly doing their best to follow the Lord. That's why we sadly have people who are bitter against Christians altogether, and come up with nasty (in my opinion) Websites such as Landover Baptist, which is not a real church, but a "parody" site filled with warped ideas of what fundamentalist Christians are like. What they are failing to see is the big difference between fundamentalism and legalism, which, in my opinion, are actually opposites.
__________________ "Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever." -- Psalm 136:1
I got a chuckle out of that website after punching it into Google. The problem is, the damage is already done, people will have preconceived notions because unfortunately a lot of churches and "Christians" can confirm these notions by acting this way. It has happened to me a lot so I can relate.
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If abortion is not the legal murder of an innocent pre-born infant, why should anyone oppose it at all?
If abortion IS such legalized murder, how can anyone say they would not try to change the laws to proscribe it, or that they would accompany and support someone intending to commit the murder?
And this is why I'm moderate.
I don't see things as either black, or white.
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"At least one-third of the Bible is poetry ... For example, the creation acounts of Genesis are liturgical poetry, not history or science. What is literal about poetry is that God did it, and because God created, the creation has meaning. When we insist, as some do, that the creation account be turned into a science of the origins of the world, we lose the heart and soul of the poetic message and turn a liberating imaginative poem into a dry intellectual fact that must be affirmed scientifically. This deadens truth."
~Robert Webber in "Ancient Future Worship"
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Last edited by K9_Trainer; 1st October 2009 at 06:35 PM.
If abortion is NOT the legal murder of an innocent pre-born infant, why should anyone oppose it at all?
If abortion IS such legalized murder, how can anyone say they would not try to change the laws to proscribe it, or that they would accompany and support someone intending to commit the murder?
Originally Posted by K9_Trainer
And this is why I'm moderate.
I don't see things as either black, or white.
Fine, but I honestly don't see how there can be any third option. The act either is or is not murder. And that being the case, I emphatically stand by what I wrote. Being "moderate" involves taking a middle road, but sometimes -- as in a choice between "is" and "is not" -- there is no such road.
__________________ "I reject your reality and substitute my own." -- Mythbuster Adam Savage
"Logic: The art of being wrong with confidence." -- ComputerGear T-Shirt
"Well THAT was a slap and a tickle!" -- William the Bloody
There very much is a middle road. It's not always about an opinion of what is or isn't, its about looking at the surrounding circumstances and what would be best for the situation at hand and all involved.
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"At least one-third of the Bible is poetry ... For example, the creation acounts of Genesis are liturgical poetry, not history or science. What is literal about poetry is that God did it, and because God created, the creation has meaning. When we insist, as some do, that the creation account be turned into a science of the origins of the world, we lose the heart and soul of the poetic message and turn a liberating imaginative poem into a dry intellectual fact that must be affirmed scientifically. This deadens truth."
~Robert Webber in "Ancient Future Worship"
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As a moderate Calvinist, I believe the following five points.
Everyone starts out as totally depraved. What that means is that sin touches each and every aspect of our lives. Yet, God gives to each of us a choice: we can accept his free gift of eternal salvation and so live.
There is no condition upon God to give the give the gift of salvation. However, there is a single condition on a human being to receive it, they must believe in Jesus Christ and what he did for them on the cross.
Jesus died for everyone.
God's grace is resistible by those who are not willing to follow him. God is not a spiritual puppet-master. He does not coerce anyone to be a Christian.
Once a person is saved, they will always remain so. Even if they seem to stray, the Shepherd will keep them as one of his flock.
As a moderate Calvinist, I believe the following five points.
That's an interesting take on Calvinism, but this probably isn't the right place to debate. Your list would probably be accepted by a very large percentage of modern Evangelicalists, whether they identify as Calvinists or not.
I will say that your views of total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and even perseverance are a significant departures from traditional Calvinism. It's curious that you identify your position as Calvinist (even if a moderate one), then proceed to disagree with the Calvinist positions on 4 1/2 out of 5 points. (I don't claim to be any kind of Calvinist, BTW.)
I've noticed a trend among some Christians to attempt to explain their belief system in terms of "I'm an X point Calvinist," so perhaps that's what you were doing. I would submit that attempting to describe one's doctrinal position based on a foreign framework is not very productive at best, and incredibly confusing at worst.
I am not a "Moderate Christian" as per the question in the OP, that is to say that I am very conservative in my doctrine and practice. As I understand it, though, this forum isn't about having moderate theological positions but about being a place of refuge from those who wish to impress others with their zealous argumentativeness and from outright hostility in the face of differing views.
That's an interesting take on Calvinism, but this probably isn't the right place to debate.
Thank you for the compliment, and... I wasn't seeking a debate.
Your list would probably be accepted by a very large percentage of modern Evangelicalists, whether they identify as Calvinists or not.
Yes, perhaps so. However, one thing I see I neglected to state (and many modern evangelicals would disagree on this point) is that I do believe in the concept of predestination. I believe that God, before the time of creation, chose a remnant of humanity to be his elect whom he will save.
I will say that your views of total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and even perseverance are a significant departures from traditional Calvinism.
Perhaps. My views are more in line with John Calvin the man than with the theological school which bears his name.
...As I understand it, though, this forum isn't about having moderate theological positions but about being a place of refuge from those who wish to impress others with their zealous argumentativeness and from outright hostility in the face of differing views.
Point well taken (hey, remember, I'm a Newbie here). I personally welcome a forum where heated debate is not the order of the day.
Perhaps. My views are more in line with John Calvin the man than with the theological school which bears his name.
I can relate. Calvin himself makes much more sense to me than most of his followers do.
Welcome, Lazerboy!
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. No guilt of life, no fear of death This is the power of Christ in me
From life’s first cry to final breath
Jesus commands my destiny
No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
‘Til He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I’ll stand
As I understand it, though, this forum isn't about having moderate theological positions but about being a place of refuge from those who wish to impress others with their zealous argumentativeness and from outright hostility in the face of differing views.
Right, CD. That was at least a large part of this place's reason for being.
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. No guilt of life, no fear of death This is the power of Christ in me
From life’s first cry to final breath
Jesus commands my destiny
No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
‘Til He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I’ll stand
The problem is, the damage is already done, people will have preconceived notions because unfortunately a lot of churches and "Christians" can confirm these notions by acting this way. It has happened to me a lot so I can relate. 
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