Psalm 51:5 doesn't teach that humanity is born sinful. It doesn't even teach that David was born sinful.
It is a song of repentance. David is expressing, with strong language, the anguish of his guilt.
Notice the personal pronouns used:
blot out my transgressions Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity cleanse me from my sin For I know my transgressions my sin is ever before me Against you, you only, have I sinned
It is obvious that David is accepting full responsibility for his actions. He is not attempting to pass his sin off on a pre-existing condidtion.
Also notice the wording of verse 5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
This is not a doctrinal statement of inherited sin. It doesn't even imply that David himself inherited a sin nature.
David is utilizing "hyperbole" - a standard poetic practice of exaggerating a statement. The purpose is to express intense emotions, or to make a strong empression upon the reader, and should not be taken literally.
A common American hybole is "I'm so hungry, I could eat a horse".
David again uses this technique in verse 7:
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Surely David isn't creating a doctrine of cleansing from sin in this statement.
OK, then we were not born sinners but became sinners when we first sinned. Regardless we have at some time in our lives sinned, some more some less but all have sinned. But we are not supposed to continue to live in sin. God will give us power to live above sin. We may not be 100% sinless but we will certainly sin-less.
OK, then we were not born sinners but became sinners when we first sinned. Regardless we have at some time in our lives sinned, some more some less but all have sinned. But we are not supposed to continue to live in sin. God will give us power to live above sin. We may not be 100% sinless but we will certainly sin-less.
LST 1154
AMEN!
__________________ "For man does not know his time. Like fish that are taken in an evil net, and like birds that are caught in a snare, so the children of man are snared at an evil time, when it suddenly falls upon them."
Ecclesiastes 9:12 (ESV)
For 1 John 1:10, that means that we have sinned and truthfully, Jesus was the only sinless person. We will always sin because we are human and because of our sin nature. However, we can always recieve forgiveness. For 1 John 3:6-9, we are not to practice or choose a sinful lifestyle. The Spirit has the power to deliver us from sinful lifestyles.
For 1 John 1:10, that means that we have sinned and truthfully, Jesus was the only sinless person. We will always sin because we are human and because of our sin nature. However, we can always recieve forgiveness. For 1 John 3:6-9, we are not to practice or choose a sinful lifestyle. The Spirit has the power to deliver us from sinful lifestyles.
Does the Bible really teach that we have a sin nature?
__________________ "For man does not know his time. Like fish that are taken in an evil net, and like birds that are caught in a snare, so the children of man are snared at an evil time, when it suddenly falls upon them."
Ecclesiastes 9:12 (ESV)
Does the Bible really teach that we have a sin nature?
It is explained in Romans 3:10, "There is none righteous, no, not one." God requires absolute perfection in not disobeying him, which is not possible. However, Jesus washes them away and forgives us of sin and if we sin again, he will forgive us (See 1 John 1:7-9).
It is explained in Romans 3:10, "There is none righteous, no, not one." God requires absolute perfection in not disobeying him, which is not possible. However, Jesus washes them away and forgives us of sin and if we sin again, he will forgive us (See 1 John 1:7-9).
I don't dispute the obvious fact that everyone sins. I have a problem with the idea that we sin because it's our nature to do so. I don't see that the Bible says that.
__________________ "For man does not know his time. Like fish that are taken in an evil net, and like birds that are caught in a snare, so the children of man are snared at an evil time, when it suddenly falls upon them."
Ecclesiastes 9:12 (ESV)
It is explained in Romans 3:10, "There is none righteous, no, not one." God requires absolute perfection in not disobeying him, which is not possible. However, Jesus washes them away and forgives us of sin and if we sin again, he will forgive us (See 1 John 1:7-9).
Romans 3:10 is a quote from Isa 41:26 and both of these passages are showing that indeed not only the Jew but also the Gentile are not righteous in the eyes of God. No one is righteous unless and until God declares him to be righteous. Psalm 32:1-2, "Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit." If one is in Christ then God has imputed him with the very righteous of God Himself and if God Himself says that man is righteous, then that man IS righteous, period. (See Romans 4.)
You said "God requires absolute perfection" and you are right! In fact Jesus Himself said in Matt 5:48, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." So Jesus commands us to be perfect but then you say it is not possible to obey Him. In other words He fails to give us any power over a sinful lifestyle so we wallow in sin. NOT. Following Christ is the easiest thing in the world to do! Matt 11:28-30, " Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.' Easy? Light? Yes, but only for those who quit "trying" to live a Christian life. As long as we try in our own power to follow Him by studying "THE COMMANDMENTS" and attempting to follow every one of them we will fail. Jesus wants us to be "in" Him as He is in us, and when we finally rest in Him we will find that He has taken our burden.
1 John 1:8-10 declares that we are liars if we claim that we do not sin but 1 John 3:5-10 declares that if we are Christians we must not continue to sin. These two ideas seem to be in conflict with each other, for we are liars if we say we do not sin but we must not continue to sin. (I'm not saying this is my opinion I'm just providing an initial impression one can develop.)
How do you interpret these two texts? I would like to hear some of your thoughts regarding this matter.
1 John 1: 8-10, means that we have a 'body of sin' that we need to die to daily. If we claim we have no body of sin, or a sinful nature, that in our sin nature we do not sin, then we are liars and the truth is not in us.
1 John 3:5-10, means that as we walk in the Spirit of God, we cannot sin... but it is ONLY as we walk in HIS Spirit. For then we 'put on' the Lord Jesus Christ and His righteousness.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
We cannot be 100% sinless. Even if we only sinned one time in 50 years that would disqualify one to be called sinless, but we should certainly sin less as we grow in Christ and as we allow the Holy Spirit to take more and more control over our lives, over our thoughts and over our actions.
It has been extremely exciting in my life to see how little I sin now that I quit "trying to follow God" and began simply resting in Him. Jesus said that His burden is light and His yoke is easy, when we rest in Him, and it is so true. The most interesting part of all of this is I didn't "work" to allow the Holy Spirit complete reign in my life, I simply rested in Christ. This sounds counterproductive! We have been taught since childhood that if you want something you must work to get it. "Resting" won't get the work done only working will. Well, the "work" was done 2000 years ago by Jesus Christ, all we need to do is rest in Him and allow Him to live His life through us.
LST 1154
Last edited by LST 1154; 26th September 2009 at 12:48 PM.
Romans 3:10 is a quote from Isa 41:26 and both of these passages are showing that indeed not only the Jew but also the Gentile are not righteous in the eyes of God. No one is righteous unless and until God declares him to be righteous. Psalm 32:1-2, "Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit." If one is in Christ then God has imputed him with the very righteous of God Himself and if God Himself says that man is righteous, then that man IS righteous, period. (See Romans 4.)
You said "God requires absolute perfection" and you are right! In fact Jesus Himself said in Matt 5:48, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." So Jesus commands us to be perfect but then you say it is not possible to obey Him. In other words He fails to give us any power over a sinful lifestyle so we wallow in sin. NOT. Following Christ is the easiest thing in the world to do! Matt 11:28-30, " Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.' Easy? Light? Yes, but only for those who quit "trying" to live a Christian life. As long as we try in our own power to follow Him by studying "THE COMMANDMENTS" and attempting to follow every one of them we will fail. Jesus wants us to be "in" Him as He is in us, and when we finally rest in Him we will find that He has taken our burden.
LST 1154
What I meant was, it is not possible to COMPLETELY/perfectly obey him, or not 24/7/365. In the Old Testament NO ONE could keep the law of Moses, because if one broke part of the law, he broke all of it. However, Jesus came to pay the penalty for ALL sins. God is still the same, only his level of righteousness is good enough, and there is no one good enough to meet that righteousness. Romans 4:5 says, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Here, to get God's standard of righteousness, we get it by faith in Jesus Christ. I do believe that a sin lifestyle can be overcome. With God, we can gain victory over sin and live above it. However, We will always be growing in faith. Paul wasn't perfect all the time either. Philippians 3:12-16 says, "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing." Paul didn't consider himself completely perfect, but what he did was still "press on", or grow in Christ, become holier and trying to work harder. Also, when his sins were forgiven, he didn't dwell on them, he would keep pressing on and growing in Christ.
Linear Mode
