How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

Notrash · #41 28th August 2009, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Thank you for your post and vote.

It seems I saw a thread on the Eschatology board awhile back with that title, and had not heard of it until that thread. Do you remember it by any chance? Thanks

No, I don't remember a specific post. I use the phrase sometimes to draw focus away from arguing about items contained in each position and towards evaluating the hermeneutic behind the differences.

I don't know if I started it or if I saw it used before; but like Rocky says: I think I invented it.

I like Evergreen's synopsis of how Christ said that he had come to fulfill!!!.

He didn't only come to fulfill the picture of the suffering savior, but also of the victorious savior through trouncing both the old covenant way of works, religion,/ combelled behavior and replacing it through fulfilling the way of justification via faith and covenant of Mercy. Think not that He came to bring Peace.. but a sword... The sword was prophecied in Duet 32:42 and would be through the 'minds of the leaders of the enemies. I used to think this was a sword of judgment that each person would be internally judged and/or approved by.... a dividing of the intent of the heart as in Heb 4:12. I think their is some extension towards this.

I think judaism has inoculated the church's teaching with the futurist ruling messiah mentality while they attempt to perpetuate their own kingdom. I think that is why they start the Talmudic calander in the fall rather than in passover as required by the law of Moses. It's possible that they see their own religion as the 'messiah' to the world while denying Christs condemnation of it through the desolation of Jerusalem/Babylon.

Notrash · #42 30th August 2009, 05:50 PM

I wish also that there would be more interaction on this issue. Like the thread in Eschatology about "this Generation"; this is a foundational issue between weather the NT is to be read as a new code of law and doctrine to be deciphered or as a narrative history of the fulfillments of the prophets and a fulfillment of the Everlasting Covenant of life to man and 'new' covenant to those under the old covenant law.

Shameless bump.

For those who didn't know, I voted all fulfilled.

LittleLambofJesus · #43 30th August 2009, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Notrash

I wish also that there would be more interaction on this issue. Like the thread in Eschatology about "this Generation"; this is a foundational issue between weather the NT is to be read as a new code of law and doctrine to be deciphered or as a narrative history of the fulfillments of the prophets and a fulfillment of the Everlasting Covenant of life to man and 'new' covenant to those under the old covenant law.

Shameless bump.

For those who didn't know, I voted all fulfilled.

I tend to agree. I was also quite disappointed when CF staff moved this thread over here to the UT "no man's land" board from the GT board, where all the action seems to be ehehe....

I have never seen so much confusion in Christianity than I have seen on Matthew 24 and all of the Olivet Discourse.

Like I said earlier, there are some "partial preterists" that do not even view the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as the same event!
Maybe we should do a verse by verse study on this Chapter on the GT board like I did with the Gospel of John and currently doing with the book of Romans.

squint · #44 1st September 2009, 12:02 PM

The 'generation' SINGULAR that Jesus and many of the O.T. writers depicted is not a GENERATION that can be seen with fleshly eyes...

yet God has been 'dealing' with THAT GENERATION from the beginning and that GENERATION will have an ending exactly as Jesus described in Matthew 24 IF it is understood properly.

Jesus gave us a physical preamble of the EVENT TO COME, so it has been in part fulfilled...but yet to be fulfilled in totality.

That 'GENERATION' is the GENERATION of DEVILS who have not yet passed away. There was ONE in the Garden who IS STILL HERE...and he also has CHILDREN. That SERPENT had children standing in the seat of mankind when Jesus was here, and THEY will still be here to SEE HIM when He comes again, prior to THEM being sent to the FIRES prepared for THEM.

Factor that generation INTO VIEW and Matthew 24 is as clear as a BELL.

LittleLambofJesus · #45 1st September 2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by squint

The 'generation' SINGULAR that Jesus and many of the O.T. writers depicted is not a GENERATION that can be seen with fleshly eyes...

yet God has been 'dealing' with THAT GENERATION from the beginning and that GENERATION will have an ending exactly as Jesus described in Matthew 24 IF it is understood properly.

Jesus gave us a physical preamble of the EVENT TO COME, so it has been in part fulfilled...but yet to be fulfilled in totality.

That 'GENERATION' is the GENERATION of DEVILS who have not yet passed away. There was ONE in the Garden who IS STILL HERE...and he also has CHILDREN. That SERPENT had children standing in the seat of mankind when Jesus was here, and THEY will still be here to SEE HIM when He comes again, prior to THEM being sent to the FIRES prepared for THEM.

Factor that generation INTO VIEW and Matthew 24 is as clear as a BELL.

Hi Squint and thanks for your input!

Perhaps to you and I it is "clear as a Bell".

I rarely post on the Eschatology board but I do browse thru it and it astonishes me how " confused" much of Christianity is on Matt 24 and Revelation. I found this thread on "Generation" over there:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7386170/
This Generation

Originally Posted by gracechick

Help me understand the verse that says This generation will not pass away before Jesus returns. How does the Greek roughly translate to our modern language as I have always struggled with this.

I know we are not to know the day or the hour, but notice we could know the season, the generation, year or even month then. Maybe

squint · #46 1st September 2009, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Hi Squint and thanks for your input!

Perhaps to you and I it is "clear as Bell".

I rarely post on the Eschatology board but I do browse thru it and it astonishes me how " confused" much of Christianity is on Matt 24 and Revelation. I found this thread on "Generation" over there:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7386170/

IF that 'generation' SITS in the temple(s) of mankind (our bodies) then THEY in mankind will 'always' minimze or eradicate ANY LIGHT upon their presence, HENCE why so FEW are able to factor THEM into their equations of judgments.

In further discourse, you will SEE that generation BLAMES AND ACCUSES our fellow man DAY AND NIGHT and they DO SO primarily 'within' believers as IN THEM is where the Word is sown and IN THEM Satan promptly arrives to STEAL.

Now, look at ANY group of believers and you will find them openly condemning MANKIND, condemning them to burn alive forever and completely IGNORING 'that Generation.' This is what THAT GENERATION does no differently TODAY than what THEY DID in the Pharisees of Jesus' time except NOW they have accelerated the HATRED OF OUR FELLOW MAN unto our fellow man to be burned alive forever.

This is what THAT GENERATION DOES and they DO SO in preparation for THEIR final judgment and separation FROM mankind.

The LAW aroused 'them' to judgment IN Israel:

Genesis 49:7
Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

That surely came to pass in the people of Israel. The LAW came, aroused SIN which is OF THE DEVIL and brought then JUDGMENT unto those who were CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, children of the DEVIL 'in Israel.'

Yet THOSE PEOPLE were viewed in THIS MANNER by God:

Numbers 23:21
He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.

The 'reasons' God saw them in this way is because GOD SEES that GENERATION as a completely SEPARATE ENTITY CLASS than the CHILDREN OF GOD...

Two Vessels/ONE BODY.

One taken...one left behind IN JUDGMENT.

They were ALL made homeless in the days of the flood save for those who clung to the backs of those in the Ark.

They were ALL made homeless on the day when it rained fire and brimstone from heaven in Sodom and Gomorrah...

And those PHYSICAL SIGNS were a WARNING TO THAT GENERATION to not get out of HAND and as a SIGN of what is to come upon THAT generation.

s

LittleLambofJesus · #47 1st September 2009, 12:24 PM

And those PHYSICAL SIGNS were a WARNING TO THAT GENERATION to not get out of HAND and as a SIGN of what is to come upon THAT generation.

So how much of Matthew 24 do you view as fulfilled, as I noticed you voted some/most as fulfilled?

Another words, what part of it or verses do you still view as future? Thanks

LittleLambofJesus · #48 1st September 2009, 01:27 PM

I would like to mainly hear from Partial Preterists and those who voted on "some/most" of Matt 24 being fulfilled on how much of it they view as fulfilled. Thanks

LittleLambofJesus · #49 2nd September 2009, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Gary51

Can you explain why?

I could, but you or most others would probably not understand.
I also want to see more votes first

Notrash · #50 4th September 2009, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by squint

The 'generation' SINGULAR that Jesus and many of the O.T. writers depicted is not a GENERATION that can be seen with fleshly eyes...

yet God has been 'dealing' with THAT GENERATION from the beginning and that GENERATION will have an ending exactly as Jesus described in Matthew 24 IF it is understood properly.

Jesus gave us a physical preamble of the EVENT TO COME, so it has been in part fulfilled...but yet to be fulfilled in totality.

That 'GENERATION' is the GENERATION of DEVILS who have not yet passed away. There was ONE in the Garden who IS STILL HERE...and he also has CHILDREN. That SERPENT had children standing in the seat of mankind when Jesus was here, and THEY will still be here to SEE HIM when He comes again, prior to THEM being sent to the FIRES prepared for THEM.

Factor that generation INTO VIEW and Matthew 24 is as clear as a BELL.

Hi squint. There are some accurate spiritual truths and principles to what you say.

However in the Olivet the greek word is always "genea" which is a word meaning a group of people living at a lifespan. The greek word that Jesus would have used if he had intended the meaning to be as you say would have been Gennema which means fruit or offspring of like kind.

GENNEMA http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G1081&t=KJV

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Mat 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Mar 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Luk 12:18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 2Cr 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for [your] food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

The word used in Matt 23 and 24 is GENEA.
I think Christ emphasised that Genea so to indicate that the Generation of the end of the old Covenant (Jeshurun) as prophesied in Duet 32.

Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David [are] fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon [are] fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ [are] fourteen generations. Mat 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here. Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here. Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed. Mat 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mar 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Mar 9:19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me. Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Luk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Luk 1:50 And his mercy [is] on them that fear him from generation to generation. Luk 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like? Luk 9:41 And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither. Luk 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. Luk 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. Luk 11:31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here. Luk 11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here. Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; Luk 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. Luk 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Act 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: Act 14:16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Eph 3:21 Unto him [be] glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. Phl 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: Hbr 3:10Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in [their] heart; and they have not known my ways.

When Jesus added the emphasis of "This" to the generation that would see 'all these things" as used in chapter 23, it becomes increasingly clear that his intended meaning was that all those things were to be signs for the disciples in Judea who would remain living until that time to prepare to flee to the mouintains east of the Jordan.

All those things DID happen in that GENEA just as he had predicted. The olivet is about the end of the old covenant age (aeon) and proving the conditional covenant dependant on man as inferior and faulty as prophecied in Duet 27, 32 and in Daniel...etc ..... not about the end of the 'world' (kosmos).

The question then as C.S Lewis recognized is how all those things were fulfilled. He noted that anyone who took the bible seriously would eventually come upon the need to resolve the fact that "this generation" actually meant that generation to whom Christ was speaking. He felt that to try to make it mean something else was being dishonest with the text.