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Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion orthodox and unorthodox Christians only - A forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. full preterism, unitarianism).

View Poll Results: Amount of Matt 24 fulfilled
I view all of it fulfilled 39 24.38%
I view it as mostly/partially fulfilled 66 41.25%
I view it as none of it is fulfilled 22 13.75%
I don't really know 15 9.38%
Other [please explain] 18 11.25%
Voters: 160. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 24th August 2009, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary51 View Post
Shameless second request!

Can you explain why you believe that Matt 24 is fulfilled?
I also believe most of Revelation is fulfilled as I view Matt 24/Olivet Discourse as the same event showing in Revelation.

I also view OC Jerusalem/Temple as that "Great City/Prostitute. Can I prove it? Nope.

The word "parousia" is used ONLY in Matthew of the Gospels and I view it as the same "parousia" spoken of in the Epistles. All written before the destruction of OC Jerusalem, it's Temple/Sanctuary and Priesthood. About all I can say on it right noe.

Matthew 24:3Of sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of the Olives toward-came to Him the Disciples according to own saying "be telling to us when? shall these-things be and what? the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952> and the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930>of the Age" [Daniel 12/Revelation 15:1]

1 Corin 15:23Each yet in the own rank, a firstfruit Christ, thereafter the ones of the Christ in the parousia <3952> of Him
24 thereafter the End/teloV <5056>, whenever He may be giving up the Kingdom to the God and Father, when He shall be nullifying/katarghsh <2673> (5661) every sovereignty/Chief and every authority and power.

Reve 15:1 And I perceived another Sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Seven Messengers having seven blows, the last, that in them is-finished the fury of the God
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  #12  
Old 24th August 2009, 10:45 AM
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I just now saw I hadn't voted.......I voted ALL fulfilled.

This person did a commentary awhile back and I even helped her with it finding grammatical errors.

What I find interesting is how confused Partial Preterists are on this. Some see a "break" in Matt 24 while some view it as all fulfilled.

This appears to be the same thing Futurists do with Daniel's 70 weeks, putting a "break" in it.

I and other "full preterists" debated a PP that views ALL of Matt 24 as fulfilled BUT, does not believe that was the 2nd Coming, but rather just "a Coming".

Sounds pretty "wishy washy" to me

http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrenend.html
*SNIP*

Bait and Switch?

I had promised that although I am not dogmatic beyond verse 34 that I would explore the issue of Matthew 24 past that point a bit. However, though I may build on this section in the future, it is not intended to be comprehensive as was the prior section. There are two primary camps within preterism on this issue: one view holds that there is a break in Matthew 24 beginning with either verse 35 or 36 [Switch-On], and another that holds that the entire enchilada primarily belongs to the first century [Switch-Off].

Proponents of the former view include Dan Trotter and Gary DeMar, and proponents of the latter include Kenneth Gentry and Marcellus Kik. Frankly there are strong arguments for both, and I have held both positions, in fact in writing this piece I have waffled - when I started writing I was becoming very convinced of a Pro-Switch view, now upon writing it I am back to my former position of a No-Switch view.

If in fact there is any change after verse 34, this would be what I would propose (I have notóor my poor memory is not allowing me to recallóread anyone who has made this type of the characterization): the entire Discourse has primary and typological ramifications as does almost the entirety of the Bible, properly understood.

The subject matter up to verse 34 is strongly primarily speaking of the first century and only very loosely can have thematic application to the future. After verse 34, Jesus speaks much more loosely, doesn't give a strong time referent and refers in ways that can refer to either the first century, the consummation, or both.

I have swayed in various positions so it is unknown if this will be my final resting place. . . . (after completely writing this piece, I am saying probably not).
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and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;
He doth bruise thee -- the head, and thou dost bruise him -- the heel.'


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Last edited by LittleLambofJesus; 24th August 2009 at 11:03 AM.
  #13  
Old 24th August 2009, 10:58 AM
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i don't see how one could ever say none . . . obviously the historical overthrow of Jerusalem ad 70 has to be in play as well as numerous other happenings. the big question among theologians is this a now and not yet sort of prophecy? was the physical destructions a type of the destructions to come at the end?

go cards
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  #14  
Old 24th August 2009, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter View Post
i don't see how one could ever say none . . . obviously the historical overthrow of Jerusalem ad 70 has to be in play as well as numerous other happenings. the big question among theologians is this a now and not yet sort of prophecy? was the physical destructions a type of the destructions to come at the end?

go cards
Thanks for your input Pujols and good question.
From what I know, there are some Christians [including a relative of mine who is a "Dispy futurist"], that do not even view the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as the same event!

There is no break in the action in either of those and according to Jesus in Reve 1:1 and 22:6, whatever was coming would be done in "swiftness". Now whether this implies everything would be accomplished in a short period of time, or not, I am not sure.

Revelation 1:1 An-un-covering Jesus Christ, which gives to him, the God, to show to His bond-servants which-things is binding to be becoming In Swiftness.
And He signifies commissioning thru the messenger of Him, to the bondservants of Him, John

Revelation 22:6 And He said to me "these the Words Faithful and True.
And Lord, the God of the spirits of the holy Prophets, commissions the Messenger of Him to show to the bond-servents of Him which-things is binding to be becoming In Swiftness.

I also view that Great City as OC Jerusalem.

Luke 19:41 And as He nears being aware the City He laments upon Her 44 and they shall be leveling thee and the offspring of thee in thee.
And not they shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee stead which not thou knew the time of the visitation of thee.

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "she falls she falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations. [Jeremiah 51:8]
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He doth bruise thee -- the head, and thou dost bruise him -- the heel.'


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Last edited by LittleLambofJesus; 24th August 2009 at 11:23 AM.
  #15  
Old 24th August 2009, 11:28 AM
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Here are 2 verses which use the word "near/nigh at hand".

Reve 1:3 Happy the one reading and the ones hearing the Words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been Written, for the Time NIGH/egguV <1451>. [Reve 22:6,10]

Revelation 22:10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this, that the Time NIGH/egguV <1451> is" [Revelation 1:3]

Which is also the same word Jesus uses in Luke 21:31 concerning the Kingdom being "near"

Luke 21:31 "Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these these becoming, ye are knowing that NIGH/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God."
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Gen 3:15
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He doth bruise thee -- the head, and thou dost bruise him -- the heel.'


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Last edited by LittleLambofJesus; 24th August 2009 at 11:34 AM.
  #16  
Old 24th August 2009, 12:08 PM
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Thank you for those that have posted and voted on this thread and I do hope to get more input on this, especially from the Catholics and Orthodox.

I would like to ask those that voted for "partially/mostly fulfilled" how much of it they feel was not fulfilled. Just curious. Please also note this earlier post at the link below. Thanks

http://www.christianforums.com/t7392923/#post52747537
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and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;
He doth bruise thee -- the head, and thou dost bruise him -- the heel.'


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  #17  
Old 24th August 2009, 12:20 PM
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MOD HAT ON

I am moving this to Unorthodox Theology. Since the OP voted for a full preterist position, and that is not allowed in GT, it will be moved as to not generate any reports of Statement of Faith, and rules, violations. Thank you for your support.
MOD HAT OFF
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  #18  
Old 24th August 2009, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hammster View Post
MOD HAT ON





I am moving this to Unorthodox Theology. Since the OP voted for a full preterist position, and that is not allowed in GT, it will be moved as to not generate any reports of Statement of Faith, and rules, violations. Thank you for your support.

MOD HAT OFF
HUH? I didn't think those that believe Matt 24 as being fulfilled were considered "full preterists".
I thought only those that viewed ALL of Revelation fulfilled were considered full preterists. Can you please explain? Thanks

I am protesting this thread being moved to the unorthodox board
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and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;
He doth bruise thee -- the head, and thou dost bruise him -- the heel.'


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Last edited by LittleLambofJesus; 20th April 2011 at 11:32 AM.
  #19  
Old 24th August 2009, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus View Post
I just now saw I hadn't voted.......I voted ALL fulfilled.
It seems you're alone in your vote choice. Can't say I'm surprised!!!
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  #20  
Old 24th August 2009, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary51 View Post
It seems you're alone in your vote choice. Can't say I'm surprised!!!
Me neither

I am hoping we can get more votes in. I will be happy with at least 50 total.
__________________
Gen 3:15
and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;
He doth bruise thee -- the head, and thou dost bruise him -- the heel.'


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matthew 24, prophecy


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