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10th August 2009, 04:45 PM
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Reps: 194,720,877,521 (power: 194,720,881) | | | Eucharist question Is this quote from Nicholas II's Roman synod of 1059 actual Catholic doctrine: ...the bread and wine placed on the altar are after consecration not only a sacrament but also the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that these are sensibly handed and broken by the hands of priests, and crushed by the teeth of the faithful, not only sacramentally but in reality... | 
10th August 2009, 11:36 PM
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__________________ So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. | 
14th August 2009, 01:41 AM
|  | Regular Member 20  | | Join Date: 26th October 2005 Location: London ontario Canada
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Reps: 436,359,824,872 (power: 436,359,831) | | From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 1373 "Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us," is present in many ways to his Church: in his word, in his Church's prayer, "where two or three are gathered in my name,"in the poor, the sick, and the imprisoned,in the sacraments of which he is the author, in the sacrifice of the Mass, and in the person of the minister. But "he is present . . . most especially in the Eucharistic species." 1374 The mode of Christ's presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as "the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend." In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained." "This presence is called 'real' - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be 'real' too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present." 1375 It is by the conversion of the bread and wine into Christ's body and blood that Christ becomes present in this sacrament. The Church Fathers strongly affirmed the faith of the Church in the efficacy of the Word of Christ and of the action of the Holy Spirit to bring about this conversion. Thus St. John Chrysostom declares:
It is not man that causes the things offered to become the Body and Blood of Christ, but he who was crucified for us, Christ himself. The priest, in the role of Christ, pronounces these words, but their power and grace are God's. This is my body, he says. This word transforms the things offered.
__________________ "Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have come to call not the righteous but sinners." -- Matthew 9:13 | 
14th August 2009, 01:46 PM
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Reps: 400,998,277,525,297,984 (power: 400,998,277,525,316) | | Originally Posted by English Augustine Is this quote from Nicholas II's Roman synod of 1059 actual Catholic doctrine:
Of course it is. The Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Christ.
__________________ Formerly veritas_et_puritas IC·XC·NI·KA Sí na veth bâden im derel Vi dúath dofn tummen. Atham meraid velig a tynd Athan eryd bain beraidh Or 'waith bain nura Anor A panlû elin cuinar Ú-pedithon 'i-aur gwann' Egor nai îl 'namárië'. Here at my path's end I am lingering / In deep darkness buried / Beyond towers strong and high / Beyond all mountains steep Above all shadows rides the sun / And stars always dwell / I will not say, "The day is done" / or to the stars, "Farewell." | 
14th August 2009, 03:29 PM
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It's this bit that gets me.
"Sensibly" deals with the realm of accidents.
As for "reality", this seems to relate to the medieval contrast between res and sacramentum. The res of the Eucharist is, however, substantial... it always seemed to me that the physical integrity of the eucharistic elements was a matter of accidents rather than substance; ie that each particle of the host was the whole Christ. How can this whole Christ be broken in substance? | 
15th August 2009, 02:50 AM
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Reps: 176,280,132,234,744,160 (power: 176,280,132,234,763) | | Originally Posted by English Augustine It's this bit that gets me.
"Sensibly" deals with the realm of accidents.
As for "reality", this seems to relate to the medieval contrast between res and sacramentum. The res of the Eucharist is, however, substantial... it always seemed to me that the physical integrity of the eucharistic elements was a matter of accidents rather than substance; ie that each particle of the host was the whole Christ. How can this whole Christ be broken in substance?
I think that it's just that teachers have to try and explain difficult concepts for some to understand in a context that the immidiate audience can comprehend. I think that words used in another part of the world, at a past time on earth, in a foreign culture may not resonate or be comprehended as well as it may have been in the place and time that it was spoken at, compared to a modern time of today and a student of today?
__________________ So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. |  | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | | | |