Take a new view....

stuartb · #1 10th August 2009, 07:03 AM

What do you think about this....

When a building becomes old and run down you can;
1) Restore the building.
2) Remove the building and foundations all together and start again.
3) Remove the building and start again on the original foundations.

Since the foundations of the church are sound and true, then for the church there is only one option which is option 3.
There is also option 1, however this may prove far too difficult.

When a building needs to be rebuilt, you clear away the old building.
This allows you to clearly see the foundations and makes room for the building to be rebuilt.

From what I have seen on a number of forums is that most people are trying to correct the things that are wrong with the church. (Restore the building).
This has been going on for a good number of years now and I have only seen a decline in attendance and more problems. I think it is time to try option 3.

Option 3 is a difficult one. I think that this starts with the individual.
I think it starts with changing your focus and taking a new view.
I believe that it requires each individual to take their eyes off of the church and to focus on Christ. I believe that such an individual would not be focusing on changing the church, but seeing the world change. When enough individuals change their view, then I believe that Christ will be able to build His church and then the church will truly be magnificent.

WhollyRabbit · #2 15th August 2009, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by stuartb

What do you think about this....

When a building becomes old and run down you can;
1) Restore the building.
2) Remove the building and foundations all together and start again.
3) Remove the building and start again on the original foundations.

Since the foundations of the church are sound and true, then for the church there is only one option which is option 3.
There is also option 1, however this may prove far too difficult.

When a building needs to be rebuilt, you clear away the old building.
This allows you to clearly see the foundations and makes room for the building to be rebuilt.

From what I have seen on a number of forums is that most people are trying to correct the things that are wrong with the church. (Restore the building).
This has been going on for a good number of years now and I have only seen a decline in attendance and more problems. I think it is time to try option 3.

Option 3 is a difficult one. I think that this starts with the individual.
I think it starts with changing your focus and taking a new view.
I believe that it requires each individual to take their eyes off of the church and to focus on Christ. I believe that such an individual would not be focusing on changing the church, but seeing the world change. When enough individuals change their view, then I believe that Christ will be able to build His church and then the church will truly be magnificent.

Since it is Christ Jesus' church, not yours and not mine, you are substituting yourself for Christ when you attempt to change His church. Aren't you being sacrilegious?

stuartb · #3 16th August 2009, 05:31 AM

It means Blasphemous, Heretical or Profane irreverent depending on what you want to lean to.

If you had been less concerned with correcting me and actually read my post then you would have realized that I was not discussing taking responsiblity for changing the church or taking the place of Christ but was stating that we should focus on Christ and the harvest field.

Am I wasting my time discussing anything on this site because I left the spirit filled group because of the religious dead works going on there?
Is this group any different?
Or is the church that meets here or in buildings truly dead?

Certainly God's love is no longer displayed in my region or on these forums.
I only see the religious dead works here.

WhollyRabbit · #4 17th August 2009, 09:04 AM

You suggested that we "3) Remove the building and start again on the original foundations" where the word "building" represents the word "church".

You are suggesting that we remove the church and start again. I'm saying that the church was founded by Christ Jesus and if anyone is to remove it and start again, it is He, not you and not me.

Maybe, like so many people, you are confusing the three or four meanings of the word "church". If you are actually referring to the building that a local congregation of Christians worhip in, why, by all means remove it if you wish.

If instead you are referring to a local group of Christians, I don't understand why you would want to remove them.

But if you mean the church that Christ Jesus founded, then you are attacking that church if you seek to remove it and start again. (What would you replace Christ's church with? Your own church? That, my friend, has been done thousands of times already. That's why millions of pseudoChristians worship at your church instead of with Christ's church.)

stuartb · #5 18th August 2009, 07:15 AM

No I am not deciding to attack the church.
Like the church of revelation the church has become tepid and is in danger of being spewed out.
It shows no mercy or compassion on the lost and is focused on self preservation.
Its methods are old and are not relevant to the world today. It holds onto these methods, not because of the bible, but because of its dead religion.
It is not me or Christ who has removed themselves from the building but it is the people who have removed themselves from the building.
I believe that Christ is building the church, but I also believe that what people call the church today is not founded on truth, but the lie that if we do the right thing and impress the right people we will be saved. This is just like the pharisee that God judged so harshly.

The real question you may wont to ask yourself is are you walking in the grace and mercy of God. Showing love and compassion to the lost and proclaiming the gospel.

If all you are doing is correcting theology or having a go at someone then you may have lost your way. I cannot say this any clearer.

Those who walk in love for God and for their neighbor and those who walk in humility, they will be the ones who will be called Christs church.

But even if you study the bible and follow all the requirements of your religion and not walk in love and humility then what good will it be? Will you have salvation?

ConqueredbyLove · #6 19th August 2009, 03:02 PM

To the OP'er

Don't give up hope...There are a few of us out "here" that understand what you are trying to communicate

Earlier this week, I was really zeroing in on the Book of Ephesians and noting how many times the Apostle talks about "building up" or "edifying"...

From what I have experienced, I am sad to say, there is a whole lot of tearing down of Christians from other Christians...The Lord Jesus Christ cannot bless amongst that...it is the opposite of His beautiful Character...no wonder people don't want to go to "church"

WhollyRabbit · #7 19th August 2009, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by stuartb

No I am not deciding to attack the church.
Like the church of revelation the church has become tepid and is in danger of being spewed out.
It shows no mercy or compassion on the lost and is focused on self preservation.
Its methods are old and are not relevant to the world today. It holds onto these methods, not because of the bible, but because of its dead religion.

Christ's church is none of the things you say in the above quote, so you must be referring to the people you worship with.

All I can say is you must be worshiping with the wrong congregation (not "church").

Please don't allow denominational thinking confuse you about Christ's church.

stuartb · #8 21st August 2009, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by WhollyRabbit

Christ's church is none of the things you say in the above quote, so you must be referring to the people you worship with.

All I can say is you must be worshiping with the wrong congregation (not "church").

Please don't allow denominational thinking confuse you about Christ's church.

I am not speaking about denomination although I might be pointing at an area of the world. The western civilization. I cannot speak for other areas.
I have seen this tepid, selfish and religious behavior in churches from Orthodox to pentecostal / Charismatics.
There are exceptions to the rule, but unless the church turns then God will build His church using other people. We who hold onto our traditions and hunger for a faith that is predictable and without life will wither like a leaf without water for God will give His water to another. And case you think that I might be referring to just the church in Australia, I have also seen your ministries coming over here and they are much the same. We have made idols of our ministries and chased after them. No wonder we have lost our ability to reach the lost.

Paul1965 · #9 22nd August 2009, 01:49 AM

The Church is made up of individual Christians. Each one on fire for the Lord can really make a difference. Yes, Christ is the foundation. The aspect of restoring the Church is returning it to it's original condition. Was the original condition of the Church without problems? No! We must work through the problems. One of the problems amidst the Church is denominational division. Despite what many think, churches of Christ and Christian churches are viewed as a denomination. I personally think we are so far deep in denominational division that this problem is unsolvable. The only thing we can do is focus on Christ. It has become almost stupid that there are so many sects of Christianity. It's no wonder people think Christianity is rediculous, just look at the people, they can't agree on much of anything. I've been looking for a congregation in which I can call family. I'm on my seventh congregation. Really just trying different ones out. Every congregation is different, even within denominations. I have found a congregation of the Church of God (Anderson, IN) that I plan on staying with. Remember, every church believes they are doing God's will and following the Bible. What a crazy wacked out world.

DerSchweik · #10 23rd August 2009, 04:34 PM

What building has "become old and worn down??"