And just wait till satan causes so much sickening death and destruction, and after thousands of years then he will execute judgment IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!
How does satan cause those things? It seems to me that satan is a personification of what bronze age humans couldn't understand.
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How does satan cause those things? It seems to me that satan is a personification of what bronze age humans couldn't understand.
BTW philadiddle: Are you a Christian? What are your Beliefs, Faith?
Just like I stated It Just doesn't make sense... but every time I have asked my Pastor,Elder Priest they say "that's just the way it is" or "Gods ways are not are ways", ... Thus my thread on "Is God both Good & Evil. "
A church that I attended, the Pastor stated that God is Both Good & Evil at the same time. He went on to say that God is sovereign and does what he wants whether it's good or bad. He made the point that EVERYTHING COMES FROM GOD Good & Evil.
This is why I started this thread to see what others believe with regards to God being Good & Evil and/ or just sovereign..
Last edited by Greekguy; 12th August 2009 at 10:11 AM.
That's just been my question all along.. why didn't God stop this sick evil "cauldron of evil" before it happened being that GOD IS ALL KNOWING! WHY NOT SPARE US THESE EVILS! AND JUST LET US LIVE IN HIS LOVE PEACE AND HARMONY! WHY MAKE IT THIS HARD!!??
That's my question why allow it, why not stop it before it happened! that's the question.
This deserves a long answer but I shall be brief.
If God did what you want, we would be like robots programmed to love.
How would you feel if you found out that your wife loved you only because your dad paid her $1000 a week to do so. You would be shattered because that isnt love, you would want your wife to love you only because she chooses to do so - that is real love.
Sin is part of our world that results in us choosing God (or not) of our own free will.
Secondly, pain and suffering is not always bad, there is a benefit that makes us better persons. Now i realise that on the worlds scale there is a lot of horrific suffering, however this life we live in now is insignificant compared to the life that comes next.
__________________ loud graphical signatures are against my religion.
BTW philadiddle:
Are you a Christian? What are your Beliefs, Faith?
Just like I stated It Just doesn't make sense... but every time I have asked my Pastor,Elder Priest they say "that's just the way it is" or "Gods ways are not are ways", ... Thus my thread on "Is God both Good & Evil. "
A church that I attended, the Pastor stated that God is Both Good & Evil at the same time. He went on to say that God is sovereign and does what he wants whether it's good or bad. He made the point that EVERYTHING COMES FROM GOD Good & Evil.
This is why I started this thread to see what others believe with regards to God being Good & Evil and/ or just sovereign..
I am new to this website, but would like to respond to your question. First, let me say that I like honest questions and I like it when fellow believers search out the answers to honest questions. I, too, am a church elder. I serve in a reformed church and believe that the statements you have heard are shown to be false by scripture. I'm not finding fault with your pastor, as he may have simply meant that God can do what he chooses. However, God cannot be defined as evil.
First, we know that God is the epitome of good. We know this by many scriptures. His goodness is extolled throughout Psalms, in John 3:16, the rest of the bible, and in the the common grace and natural revelation He gives to all men. James says:
16Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. 17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
However, we must not ignore the fact that He has allowed evil for his purposes. In Romans 9, he plainly explains the role that evil plays in His plan. Here is a passage from Romans 9:
14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
I believe it is an incorrect interpretation of this scripture to say that God is being evil. He is merely allowing the evil present in his creatures. For, according to James,
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Thanks for reading this response.
Last edited by calvinluther; 14th August 2009 at 01:26 AM.
First, we know that God is the epitome of good. We know this by many scriptures. His goodness is extolled throughout Psalms, in John 3:16, the rest of the bible, and in the the common grace and natural revelation He gives to all men. James says:
16Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. 17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
An honest question for you. Every good and perfect gift comes from God, and some evil comes from God for His ultimate plan, right? It seems He doesn't just allow evil but He is the direct cause of it as well. He is the direct cause of several cases of disease in a couple different places in the bible and commands several genocides, all for His glory. Are there any evil things that happen that do not come from God? In what way do somethings come from God and other things not come from God? In other words, if a child gets ebola and dies a painful death, then how could we distinguish if the source was God or an evil force?
Originally Posted by calvinluther
I believe it is an incorrect interpretation of this scripture to say that God is being evil. He is merely allowing the evil present in his creatures. For, according to James,
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Thanks for reading this response.
God is the creator of evil. If it is a part of His creation then there is no escaping that He is the ultimate cause for evil, in the same way He is the ultimate cause for good. This is confirmed in scripture.
Isaiah 45:7 KJV I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
We could argue that newer translations use "chaos" or "disorder" instead of evil, based on better hermanutics, however, the point is that both ends of the spectrum in all things was created by God. We may argue that evil is just the absense of good, and it can't be created, but the verse also talks about darkness, which is just the absense of light. This verse strongly indicates that EVERYTHING on every end of every spectrum was created by God.
Furthermore, having forknowledge of the evil that will occur, and continuing with creation anyway is accepting that it will happen and means that God is ultimately responsible for it.
__________________ For free printable drum lessons with audio check out my website. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
For many years I have wondered about this very question.. (writing in large font due to partial blindness...)
As a Christian, This is something I've always pondered...
When God created the Angels for himself for worship/ friendship I know that these beings came from God as he created them.
As God is ALL KNOWING and HOLY and hates evil. When God seen that Lucifer was about to rebel along with taking 1/3 of the Angels with him. God being all knowing would have seen the evils that his Angelic creations would have caused unimaginable horrors to mankind - made in God Image.
Don't you think that God would have said somthing like this to satan.
You and the angels who are following you will do tremendous damage and evil to my next creation Man & Woman.
Being the Holy God that I am I cannot let you harm my human creation, I will banish you and the angels that follow you from existence.
Therefore you will not harm my creation and introduce evils ( Murders, Molestations, Lies, hate, envy and All other forms of Evil) to them, for you will cause horrible destruction therefore I will not let you go to Earth and you will be banished from existence and be no more. Earth is home of my Newest Creation Man & Woman.. They are off limits.. because I hate Evil.. cannot stand it nor tolerate it...
Please tell me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would God let satan cause such terrible damage to this Earth and his Human creation for over 5 thousand years...
And just wait till satan causes so much sickening death and destruction, and after thousands of years then he will execute judgment IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!
Why would God allow this?
This seems to go against every thing the bible says about God. If God is "Love" why would he allow such evil...
Is there something else we are not told about God?
I know that some will say " God is mysterious" and "That's just that way it is" or "Gods ways are not are ways"
These statements are not enough...
Anyone?
That is the catch of free will, that the being given it, can sometimes choose to do otherwise.
An honest question for you. Every good and perfect gift comes from God, and some evil comes from God for His ultimate plan, right? It seems He doesn't just allow evil but He is the direct cause of it as well. He is the direct cause of several cases of disease in a couple different places in the bible and commands several genocides, all for His glory. Are there any evil things that happen that do not come from God? In what way do somethings come from God and other things not come from God? In other words, if a child gets ebola and dies a painful death, then how could we distinguish if the source was God or an evil force?
God is the creator of evil. If it is a part of His creation then there is no escaping that He is the ultimate cause for evil, in the same way He is the ultimate cause for good. This is confirmed in scripture.
Isaiah 45:7 KJV I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
We could argue that newer translations use "chaos" or "disorder" instead of evil, based on better hermanutics, however, the point is that both ends of the spectrum in all things was created by God. We may argue that evil is just the absense of good, and it can't be created, but the verse also talks about darkness, which is just the absense of light. This verse strongly indicates that EVERYTHING on every end of every spectrum was created by God.
Furthermore, having forknowledge of the evil that will occur, and continuing with creation anyway is accepting that it will happen and means that God is ultimately responsible for it.
I don't agree. God gave us the ability to create evil as a necessary part of giving us the ability to create righteousness. He gave us the abilit to love others. That ability required the ability to not love others and when we do not love others we create evil, not God. The Isaiah verse is an obviously bad translation, evil is not the opposite of peace as light is to darkness. I don't believe in inerrance anyway, so the issue is moot with me. If the translation is correct--it is simply wrong theology. I see four possibilites---No Creator, a loving Creator, an unloving Creator, a Creator that is like us loving sometimes and unloving sometimes. I believe in the Creator that is good all the time and never unloving.
__________________ I believe in a loving Creator who created us for the purpose of being capable of receiving and responding to the love of the Creator. Our first gift of life is temporary. If we attempt to fulfill our purpose of loving others, we have the hope of receiving a second gift of eternal life. There is no pain in the after life. If we do not receive the second gift, we are simply left with the first gift and will not exist after we die.
An honest question for you. Every good and perfect gift comes from God, and some evil comes from God for His ultimate plan, right? It seems He doesn't just allow evil but He is the direct cause of it as well. He is the direct cause of several cases of disease in a couple different places in the bible and commands several genocides, all for His glory. Are there any evil things that happen that do not come from God? In what way do somethings come from God and other things not come from God? In other words, if a child gets ebola and dies a painful death, then how could we distinguish if the source was God or an evil force?
.
I don't believe any evil comes from God directly. He has created a world in which there is pain and suffering, but evil is not the same as pain and suffering. Evil is I believe causing others to suffer or failing to help them when they are suffering. I don't believe God ever killed anyone or ordered anyone to kill someone. If He did, I see no glory in it for Him. I see the glory of God in His love for us. Yes there are evil things that happen that do not come from God. All evil done by man is from man and not God. All suffering that are part of this universe such as disease and bad weather etc. is not directly from God but is simply a part of this world in which it rains on the just and the unjust. The child dying from ebola in my opinion is not caused by God or an evil force. It is part of the way this world is set up. Every living thing suffers and dies in this world. It is not connected to evil and righteousness. Life however in the next world is connected to evil and righteousness and there will be no suffering there and then. Yes the Bible indicates God caused killing and ordered killing, but I don't believe that teaching is from God nor do I believe it is divinely true, even though it is in the Bible. I do believe the Bible is the most important book ever written by man and is the source of much divine truth--not the only source, but a very important source especially in that it contains much of the teaching of the incarnate word of God in the person of Jesus.
__________________ I believe in a loving Creator who created us for the purpose of being capable of receiving and responding to the love of the Creator. Our first gift of life is temporary. If we attempt to fulfill our purpose of loving others, we have the hope of receiving a second gift of eternal life. There is no pain in the after life. If we do not receive the second gift, we are simply left with the first gift and will not exist after we die.
God is love thus God is good. He cannot be good and bad at the same time that is impossible. God is not like a human having the same emotions of love and hate...then he would be a "man made god" like Zeus. He is not. He might appear to us to do evil but He does not .He allows us to experience evil out of our own free will. The devil was left to be free after Licifer fell from Paradise. Evil was present in the Garden of Eden. Man chose to do evil and thus he fell. Adam and Eve fell and we are born in a fallen state as the whole creation. But we are saved and raised again at our baptism that makes us "renewed" and we are dying in Christ and raising out of the water "whiter than snow" but ultimately we have to live a life in Christ to remain with His commandments until death Awaiting the second coming where we will be raised with Him.
Sorry for the rant but asking if God is good or evil ....has to do with how one percieves the creation and the identity of man. Man is by nature not evil as he is created in God's image and likness that is all love and with a rational mind/intellect.
God cannot be evil or He will have to go against his nature that is all love.
__________________ No one on this earth can avoid affliction; and although the
afflictions which the Lord sends are not great men imagine them
beyond their strength and are crushed by them. This is because
they will not humble their souls and commit themselves to the will
of God. But the Lord Himself guides with His grace those who are
given over to God's will, and they bear all things with fortitude
for the sake of God Whom they have so loved and with Whom they are
glorified for ever. It is impossible to escape tribulation in this
world but the man who is giver over to the will of God bears
tribulation easily, seeing it but putting his trust in the Lord,
and so his tribulations pass.
For many years I have wondered about this very question.. (writing in large font due to partial blindness...)
<snip>
Is there something else we are not told about God?
I know that some will say " God is mysterious" and "That's just that way it is" or "Gods ways are not are ways"
These statements are not enough...
Anyone?
Using a large font for your partial blindness...
Without adversity there is no growth as a Christian.
Consider any book or movie: there are heroes and heroines, there is adversity, there are adversaries, there is a background, there is love guiding the heroes and heroines.
Consider little children at play: they naturally 'play God' with their toys having 'good guys' fighting against 'bad guys'.
This concept is not therefore at all foreign to people.
Deeper purposes behind it all? Yes... but that is the main thrust of it. We are called to know God and it is through the Spirit of God in our hearts against adversity we come to truly know God.
As for the great evils of this world, that is a person's current perspective. Remember, for little children the little things are huge for them. They get booboos they scream about. When they have to wait a few minutes for something it seems like forever to them. When one grows up they see how quick that waiting was and how meaningless the travails.
We are actually given very little pain in comparison to the eternal reward before us.
God is eternal, we are small, God is outside time and creation: we are inside it.
One day all believers will see things as they truly are.
Awaiting the second coming where we will be raised with Him. 
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