How often do you go to Church?

There's plenty of priests around who will tell you that whatever you feel like doing is just great. Want to get a divorce, remarry without an annulment and still go to Mass and Communion? Hey, no problem. Want to practice artificial birth control? Don't worry about it. Mass on Wednesdays instead of Sundays? Whatever suits you...

All these kinds of answers indicate one thing: find yourself another priest, one who is faithful to the Magisterium. No priest has any authority to say any of the above.

Sunday is the day, and yes it is a discipline, a day given to the Lord. Saturday evening is considered part of Sunday. Even the Divine Office, insead of saying "Vespers for Saturday" says, "First Vespers for Sunday." This would be said in the early evening on Saturday. So Saturday evening Mass fulfills the Sunday obligation.

The pope recently gave an instruction concerning Sunday in which he said that while we should not work on Sunday, people whose jobs contribute to the relaxation of families on Sunday are exempt. He didn't spell out what he meant by that, but I imagine it includes people who work in restaurants, museums, transportation, etc.

This makes me feel at ease about going out to breakfast on Sunday mornings, because I did wonder about the situation of those people.

But, shopping on Sundays.... "Remember keep holy the sabbath day" is the third commandment, still in force so far as I know. For those of you who are younger, this is actually a fairly recent development. In my youth and childhood, there were no malls, and everything was closed down except the restaurants and a few gas stations. It really was a holy day for the the whole society. To me, shopping on Sunday just contributes to the frenzied pace of the family and of life as a whole. Our temerity in disobeying this commandment just contributes to the feeling that we can get away with...all that we think we're getting away with.

There's no blessing in it. Once Msgr. Luke, the pastor of my parish when I was young, gave a thunderous sermons in which he preached, "What you do on Sunday will be undone on Monday!" My mother went home and washed the kitchen floor. The next morning, she opened the kitchen door, and the milkman had left a bottle of milk between the door and the storm door. It tipped over, broke and sent milk all over the kitchen floor...which had to be mopped again. She took the hint, but in our day and age, Sunday is laundry day in our apartment complex and the cars do not budge all day long, least of all to go to mass.

This is one of those offenses against God that seem very minor in comparison with everything else that is going on. Still, keeping the day holy is a moral absolute.

Lee

I did not know this ...

I was told that my maternal grandmother would not do anything other than attend church on Sunday - not even cook the meal - it was prepared the day before and "warmed" for Sunday dinner - the dishes were saved for Monday.

I respect and understand your reasoning, but I still think you are wrong. The main reason we go to Church is to build our Relationship with God, and to honor him..... I like Wednesdays, and will make Wednesday the Sabath Day for our Family... My Priest says it is ok, and I feel that it is okay too. I don't think God will be upset with our decision.... I think it is unfair how some of you "judged" me.... I am Catholic, but I do have my own mind, thoughts, and opinions..... Plus, I see nothing wrong with using artificial birth-control. This doesn't make me a bad Catholic.... I respect your opinions, but please don't judge me. Plus, I think Catholics should recieve Holy Communion if they get a divorce without an annoulment... The Bible says when you recieve the body and blood of Christ you will live eternally in Heaven with him.... I don't think the Church has the right to deny anybody this experience with Jesus Christ (no matter how many sins they have committed)..... I am putting on my bullet proof shield now, because I know I am going to be bashed for this statement..... But, this is what i believe..... Hope

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God Bless You, Hope

Then you're committing a mortal sin by refusing to fulfill your Sunday obligation. Just so you know. This is serious business. You do not have the right to redefine when you go to Church.

Seems to me you want to remold the Church to fit your own desires. The church is not a democracy. You go by what the Church says, or you leave.

AlphaPhi, You don't sound like a Christian to me if that is how you treat others..... Maybe you need to relearn your Religion, before you start judging others? Hope

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God Bless You, Hope

To hope:

Some things to consider before you dismiss your conflicts with the Church as an arrangement to "agree to disagree":

(1) The Church has a REASON for the teachings it puts forth. The Sunday Mass obligation is actually obedience to the Ten Commandments. And if you recall, God wrote those on stone when he gave them to Moses. They weren't written in pencil so they could be edited later.

(2) The Church also has a reason for its stance on Artificial Birth Control. I used to have the same feelings on the subject as you hold now. Do some reading, Hon. I found an excellent book at a Catholic book store where a priest explained exactly what Paul VI was discussing when he wrote his encyclical on Human Life. It truly opened my eyes. There's a whole lot more to it than just family planning, and who has the right to dictate what you do with your body. I admit if I had read it years earlier, I'd probably have more than my two kids now. (to paraphrase Butterfly McQueen, "I ain't birthin' no mo' babies!" The factory has closed down, LOL)

(3) The issue of divorce is something the Church has dedicated an entire ministry towards healing. The fact is, in the "fast food" mentality of today's society, people are NOT taking the marriage vows as a serious, permanent commitment. Marriage is as disposable as a dirty Pampers. Yet when the Church TRIES to make couples be responsible, and take prenuptual classes, people get highly incensed at the invasion of their privacy.

Being Catholic is much more than sitting in a pretty church with statues and incense and standing and sitting and kneeling and blessing yourself with holy water. It's a complete spiritual commitment of your immortal soul. Jesus has already done the hard part, and the Church asks you to do yours.

I remember a discussion I had with a young girl who wanted to convert to Catholicism. She was going against her parents' wishes, and her commitment was more to defy them than to please God, I think. She made excuses up the wazoo as to why she couldn't attend Mass very often, and then she said she was left-handed so she wanted to make the Sign of the Cross with her left hand. I asked her if she was disabled. She said no, it was just more comfortable for her that way.

I lost my patience then, God help me. I said that over the ages, martyrs have DIED horrible, tortuous, bloody deaths to defend the faith. People all over the world suffer unbearable, indescribably hardship to worship God. And she wanted to be COMFORTABLE?

Just think about it.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

Originally posted by hope
I respect and understand your reasoning, but I still think you are wrong.

You obviously do not understand our reasoning if you somehow fancy that going to Mass only on wednesday fulfills your sunday obligation.

The main reason we go to Church is to build our Relationship with God, and to honor him..... I like Wednesdays, and will make Wednesday the Sabath Day for our Family...

Oh really? I thought your husband worked on Wednesday. Are we not to rest on the Sabbath? Also, when did God give you authority to change His Sabbath day? And also, the point of Church is to grow as a community, as the adopted brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ... not as individuals.

My Priest says it is ok, and I feel that it is okay too.

Feelings... oh brother. Feelings can often be wrong, and in this case they are. Your priest is also wrong, or you misunderstood him.

I don't think God will be upset with our decision....

You better hope not, but I think you've been warned adequately enough of your falling short of the mark as it pertains to your obligations as a Catholic Christian.

I think it is unfair how some of you "judged" me....

You brought up the thread, it is my belief that you already knew something was fishy about this whole deal and you wanted to assure yourself that it was somehow "ok" by seeing if you could generate support on this forum. You didn't get it, now you're upset. Too bad.

I am Catholic, but I do have my own mind, thoughts, and opinions...

Having one's own mind, thoughts and opinions are fine, but a Catholic is known by their obedience to the shepherds. As I said before and you have not acknowledged, we're sheep... not shepherds.

Plus, I see nothing wrong with using artificial birth-control.

That much is obvious.

This doesn't make me a bad Catholic...

Yes, it does. Especially if you're aware of the damaging effects of this practice, especially if you're aware that the Church has never ever condoned it.

I respect your opinions, but please don't judge me. Plus, I think Catholics should recieve Holy Communion if they get a divorce without an annoulment...

Divorce is a mortal sin, taking the Eucharist unworthily (ie: without a proper Confession and penance) is blasphemy and will bring condemnation on one's soul. This is straight from the mouth of Paul. Besides, the Church doesn't make rules for us because it can. It makes guidelines for us because the Church has been put in place to help us stay on the straight and narrow path. The whole point and purpose of the Church is to lead as many people to God as it can, not to keep us away from Him. If the Church tells us that something is bad, it does so because it knows if we do it, we will further separate ourselves from Him.

The Bible says when you recieve the body and blood of Christ you will live eternally in Heaven with him....

Paul also says that if you take it unworthily you heap condemnation upon youself.

I don't think the Church has the right to deny anybody this experience with Jesus Christ (no matter how many sins they have committed)...

You obviously do not understand the whole purpose of the Church then. See my above comments and perhaps try to understand your faith.

But, this is what i believe.....

It is my hope that you unbelieve as much of this as possible... soon.

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Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals. I get my back into my living. I don't need to fight, to prove I'm right. I don't need to be forgiven.

None of them are WRONG, and your understanding is lacking.
Your priest is a liberal and not in line with the Church, and misleading you.
I saw no one JUDGING you, but they did point out what is the Church teaching. God gave us the commandments, and He said 'keep holy the Saboth', but the early Christians kept the 'Lord's Day' on Sunday. Here from the Catechism: BUT IT DEFINITLY show you to be an uninformed Catholic, as the Church condemns it.
It's not the divorce, but remarrying (outside the Church) without an annullment.
Your BELIEF shows a lack of knowledge of the Catholic faith; poor catechesis.
While I will agree that AlphaPhi sounded harsh, he no doubt meant it as guidance in Christian love. Also, based on both of your posts, AlphsPhi knows his Church doctrine far deeper than do you.

Take to heart the post VOW gave you. She touched on issues that should be pondered by everyone. Don't be a 'cafeteria' Catholic who wants to be comfortable.

Kotton

Wow, I have to say that I think this situation was badly handled. In posts on other threads, Hope has shown herself to be an enthusiastic Catholic, full of good will toward the Church and making an effort to be an apostle.

In this thread she shows herself badly in need of good instruction and also of some understanding on the part of her fellow Catholics.

Did we tell her the truth? Possibly. But if we are supposed to speak the truth in love, I don't think we did too hot a job. Besides laying down the law to her, was there any effort to get inside her own understanding and bring her along gently to a better understanding?

I wonder if it is really possible to speak the truth without speaking the truth in love. Pleading for some understanding, she said, "Please don't judge me..." What was the first thing that happened? The roof fell in!

Message from us to her, "Repent, you sinner!" Until we can frame the truth more lovingly and convey it with some gentleness and tact, perhaps we also will have something to mention in confession.

Yes, I am very familiar with the John the Baptist and the Lord upbraiding the Pharisees, but you'll recall that Hope came diffidently looking for advice. She is not a Pharisee, and we are not full of prophetic grace or Divine Wisdom. As fellow human beings probably in need of as much understanding and instruction, it behoves us to handle fellow Catholics with a little care.

Do you think God would be happy with us for driving her out of the Church? Think about it.

Let us pray for one another, and for her, and hope that she prays for us. Should the bonds of charity be broken?

Lee