Truth and Science

AV1611VET · #41 3rd August 2009, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Alunyel

The parallels between Christian beliefs and other, much older religions are extensive.

Once again, this is known as Diabolical Plagiarism, or Diabolical Mimicry.

EnemyPartyII · #42 3rd August 2009, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

I believe the Bible is true because It meets these standards.

I reckon encyclopedia Britanica probably meets those standards better.

random325nicaea · #43 3rd August 2009, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

Once again, this is known as Diabolical Plagiarism, or Diabolical Mimicry.

you DO know that these religion predate the NT, and large parts of the OT.

the idea of gods having mortal sons is old, VERY old.
ever read the Illias? that was written way before the NT. and the story goes back a lot further then when it was written.

the meal with bread and wine (flesh and blood) is also not original to the christian faith. ever heard of the mithras cult?

ofc I won't forget to bring up the cult of mary, which has really strong influences from the Isis and other pagan "mother godesses" cults.

not to forget the gilgamesh flood epic, from which motifs can be found in the noachian flood.

and the golden rule is one of those things everyone already knew, but jut wrote down and attributed to god because it lend him credibility.

AV1611VET · #44 3rd August 2009, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by random325nicaea

you DO know that these religion predate the NT, and large parts of the OT.

the idea of gods having mortal sons is old, VERY old.
ever read the Illias? that was written way before the NT. and the story goes back a lot further then when it was written.

the meal with bread and wine (flesh and blood) is also not original to the christian faith. ever heard of the mithras cult?

ofc I won't forget to bring up the cult of mary, which has really strong influences from the Isis and other pagan "mother godesses" cults.

not to forget the gilgamesh flood epic, from which motifs can be found in the noachian flood.

and the golden rule is one of those things everyone already knew, but jut wrote down and attributed to god because it lend him credibility.

Do you know what the "diabolical" in Diabolical Mimicry is a reference to?

random325nicaea · #45 3rd August 2009, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

Do you know what the "diabolical" in Diabolical Mimicry is a reference to?

diablos, aka SATAN

do you know that that doesn't convince me the slightest?
because you're making reality fit with the bible, not the bible with reality.

marktheblake · #46 3rd August 2009, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by random325nicaea

you DO know that these religion predate the NT, and large parts of the OT.

There are a few possibilities that you could determine from that; that you are right, or all other religions are originated from one, or just random luck they have similar themes.

So in other words, that does not validate your argument because your evidence can work both ways.

the meal with bread and wine (flesh and blood) is also not original to the christian faith. ever heard of the mithras cult?

I have heard of Mithras cult often, and it is not a good example for your cause. The only known information about this religion/God is post Christ and there are no scriptures. Attempting to link Christ as derivative of Mithras is contrived at best.

Hespera · #47 3rd August 2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by marktheblake

There are a few possibilities that you could determine from that; that you are right, or all other religions are originated from one, or just random luck they have similar themes.

So in other words, that does not validate your argument because your evidence can work both ways.

I have heard of Mithras cult often, and it is not a good example for your cause. The only known information about this religion/God is post Christ and there are no scriptures. Attempting to link Christ as derivative of Mithras is contrived at best.

There are many themes that recur in religions, the return of the son of god being one of many. Looks like something out of the human payche rather than evidence of common origin or luck.

If Christianity were unique that might impress me some.

Another theme seems to be the amazing (random) luck that people have always had at being born into the one true religion.

random325nicaea · #48 3rd August 2009, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by marktheblake

There are a few possibilities that you could determine from that; that you are right, or all other religions are originated from one, or just random luck they have similar themes.

So in other words, that does not validate your argument because your evidence can work both ways.

I have heard of Mithras cult often, and it is not a good example for your cause. The only known information about this religion/God is post Christ and there are no scriptures. Attempting to link Christ as derivative of Mithras is contrived at best.

1) all other religion have most certainly NOT originated form one, as we see many types of religions sprouting up on different completely separates geographical locations.

2) similar themes in a area where a lot of trade is taking place mean nothing? not a chance.
you forget how much the bible has been censored and "altered" to "sweettalk" roman citizens into converting.

makign pilatus appear nicer then he is, clear separation from the rebelious jews (jews were a unwanted minority to the romans) references to hated roman emperors (Nero wasn't just hated by christians)

intergration of religious poractices from pagan religions to easy transition when converting (the cult of mary is a nice example of that)

you seem to think that related and derived are somehow indistinguishable, when they most certainly are, in part due to chronological order and geographical distribution.

3) i did NOT say christ was derived from mithras, you kinda missed me there.
i said the last supper theme shares strong connections to the (elitist and militaristics (lots of soldier where followers)) mithras cult. they predated the story of the last supper, and they ALSO had ceremonial meals with bread and wine ,in which the wine was suppose to symbolize blood.(i need to reverify this i think, i got this from my latin history book, but i can't be 100% certain of this)

keep in mind that the mithras cult was a very secretive cult, possible there are more themes that have been copied, but have been lots to time.

marktheblake · #49 3rd August 2009, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Hespera

There are many themes that recur in religions, the return of the son of god being one of many.

From my perspective (not yours ) the return of the son of god 'myth/legend' originated 6000 years ago, unless of course, Usher cannot count. It is therefore no surprise to see this legend propogate into other cultures.

Another theme seems to be the amazing (random) luck that people have always had at being born into the one true religion.

Unfortunately for us they all contradict. Either all but one are wrong, or all are wrong.

Alunyel · #50 3rd August 2009, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by random325nicaea

1) all other religion have most certainly NOT originated form one, as we see many types of religions sprouting up on different completely separates geographical locations.

Perfect example; Quetzalcoatl. The Aztecs believed he came down as a mortal man, taught them about everything they knew, as a civilization, then left and promised to return to restore the Aztecs to some kind of former glory. Doesn't this sound familiar? Yet, Christianity had yet to be imagined, and was seperated from America by the Atlantic.