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  #1  
Old 1st August 2009, 05:36 PM
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Christ The fallen angels

every one know thats lucifer was the first to rebel but who were the others and where in the bible are they referred to ?
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Old 1st August 2009, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by odessa deidres View Post
every one know thats lucifer was the first to rebel but who were the others and where in the bible are they referred to ?
You mean Revelation 12:4? If so, that is generally referred to as rebellion of Lucifer and the other angels before the Fall of Men.

However, Saint Peter and Saint Jude reference a group of angels who sinned and was cast into prison by God (2 Peter 2:4-5, Jude 6-7). There is some debate on the identity on these angles. Some interpret those passages as referring to the above rebellion, but it does not make sense, since demons are not bound in prison. It seems likely that Jude was referring to the story told in book of Enoch, about a group of angels ("Watchers") who sinned and started to married and mate human women (Cf. Gen 6:1-3, the texts is more likely to be talking about angels). They was cast into Tartarus until final judgment. However, this is my theological opinion on this topic.

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Old 15th August 2010, 06:05 AM
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The fallen angels are the holy angels of God who didn't keep their position or duty assigned to them by God. Here is some part of the book of Enoch,

1It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.
2And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
(3) An Aramaic text reads "Watchers" here (J.T. Milik, Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4 [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1976], p. 167).
3Then their leader Samyaza said to them; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise;
4And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime.
5But they answered him and said; We all swear;
6And bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.
7Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, (4) which is the top of mount Armon.
(4) Upon Ardis. Or, "in the days of Jared" (R.H. Charles, ed. and trans., The Book of Enoch [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1893], p. 63).
8That mountain therefore was called Armon, because they had sworn upon it, (5) and bound themselves by mutual execrations.
(5) Mt. Armon, or Mt. Hermon, derives its name from the Hebrew word herem, a curse (Charles, p. 63).
9These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Arazyal. These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them. (6)
(6) The Aramaic texts preserve an earlier list of names of these Watchers: Semihazah; Artqoph; Ramtel; Kokabel; Ramel; Danieal; Zeqiel; Baraqel; Asael; Hermoni; Matarel; Ananel; Stawel; Samsiel; Sahriel; Tummiel; Turiel; Yomiel; Yhaddiel (Milik, p. 151).
10Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.
11And the women conceiving brought forth giants, (7)

You can search the book of Enoch in the internet. Hope this will help.
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Old 21st August 2010, 06:52 PM
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Odessa:

While I do not know if Lucifer was actually the first angel to resist the Father, I do believe that Ramon96 is correct in his elaboration that the “angels that sinned” in 2 Peter 2:4-5 refer to those angels (early texts such as enoch called them “watchers”) who, as physical beings, had sexual relations with the daughters of men and who contributed to the moral decline of mankind before the flood; and the second group of “bad” angels “which kept not their first estate” referred to by Jude 6-7 (quoting enochian history) were those who remained loyal to Lucifer during Lucifer's disagreements/conflicts with God the Father (referred to in Christian Theology as "The war in heaven") and were, because of their plans for rebellion, expelled from pre-creation heaven.

The most famous and (textually) well documented of these conflicts Between the Father and Lucifer, involve Lucifer’s refusal to honor Adam. This early history is well described in much of the early Judao-Christian literature dealing with the many creation counsel histories. This specific conflict is also alluded to in Quranic Literature.

Kudo's to you Ramon96

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Old 22nd August 2010, 09:14 PM
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I have read my statement in the last post : "The most famous and (textually) well documented of these conflicts Between the Father and Lucifer, involve Lucifer’s refusal to honor Adam." and considered that most readers are probably NOT historians and thus are NOT familiar with ancient texts dealing with this theme. For such individuals, this statement is probably foreign to their knowledge base.

I have started a thread named "The fall of Lucifer in ancient sacred texts" in this "Christian History" portion of this forum which explains and provides context for my statement.

This is the link to the fall of Lucifer in ancient sacred texts : http://www.christianforums.com/t7493018/



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Old 22nd August 2010, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by odessa deidres View Post
every one know thats lucifer was the first to rebel but who were the others and where in the bible are they referred to ?
"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." -- Genesis 6:1-2

"...and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." -- Genesis 6:4

"After the fallen angels went into the daughters of men, the sons of men taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order to provoke the Lord." -- Jasher 4:18

"... they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men ...." -- Daniel 2:43

"I [Nebuchadnezzar] saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven." -- Daniel 4:13

"This matter is by decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men." --Daniel 4:17

"And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Semiazaz, their leader, Arakiba, Rameel, Kokabiel, Tamiel, Ramiel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaqiel, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens." -- Enoch 6:1-8

"And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the working of them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antinomy, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all coloring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven." -- Enoch 8:1-2

"And these are the names of the holy angels who watch. Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world over Tartarus. Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men. Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries. Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos. Saraqael, one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit. Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim. Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise." -- Enoch 20:1-8

"... for in his days the angels of the Lord descended on the earth, those who are named the Watchers, that they should instruct the children of men, and that they should do judgment and uprightness on the earth." -- Jubilees 4:15-16

"And in the twelfth jubilee in the seventh week thereof, he [Enoch] took to himself a wife, and her name was Edna, the daughter of Danel, the daughter of his father's brother, and in the sixth year in this week she bare him a son and he called his name Methuselah. And he was moreover with the angels of God these six jubilees of years, and they showed him everything which is on the earth and in the heavens, the rule of the sun, and he wrote down everything. And he testified to the Watchers, who had sinned with the daughters of men; for these had begun to unite themselves, so as to be defiled with the daughters of men and Enoch testified against (them) all." -- Jubilees 4:20-23

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." -- 2 Corinthians 11:14-15

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" -- 2 Peter 2:4

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day." -- Jude 1:6
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Old 22nd August 2010, 10:13 PM
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Old 23rd August 2010, 09:30 AM
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if you name the heavens extraterestial it doesnt denote the glory of god. you just make what ever is out there more astonding. but jesus wasnt created he just made him self flesh in a demonstration of love humbling himself to death. im saying this after reading the mans signature above
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Old 23rd August 2010, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by youngjoshuatree View Post
if you name the heavens extraterestial it doesnt denote the glory of god.
Nonsense.

Read the Bible.

"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands." -- Psalm 19:1

And when you're done with that you should look up heaven in the dictionary.

Webster definition number 1: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heaven

Definition of HEAVEN

1
: the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome
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"Man will believe anything, as long as it's not in the Bible." -- Napoleon Bonaparte, emperor, 19th century

"We all believe as an article of faith that life evolved from dead matter on this planet." -- Harold C. Urey, chemist, 1962
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Old 27th August 2010, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by odessa deidres View Post
every one know thats lucifer was the first to rebel but who were the others and where in the bible are they referred to ?
This is hard information, but true:

That is all disinformation. That is not what "happened" or is happening, nor anything like that.

It is utter myth, and the horrible truth is nobody thinks they "need to know" the truth yet. But eventually, that clock turns and then when they feel they really need to know, they won't find it because they went around believing just what they wanted to believe while in the flesh. Instead of seeking and believing the truth.

The accepted canon is true, though these tales people get from distorting scripture, assuming they understand it, and buying into myths from books no one would dare to include in the canon.

Yet, ironically, there are books of great value outside the canon which they dismiss.


It is all about what people want to believe. They do not even know themselves, so they do not have any protection against what they want to believe.

Best bet is to start getting serious and distrust your own heart now, rather then later.
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