Did Caiaphas the high-Priest recognise Jesus as the Messiah?
John 11:49-52 "And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."
Thoughts?
__________________ William Tyndale cried out, "Lord, open the King of Englands eyes"
For Caiphas having becoming high priest, though unworthy of that dignity, prophesies, not knowing indeed what he says. The Holy Ghost makes use of his tongue only, but touches not his sinful heart. (St. Chrysostom, hom. lxiv. in Joan.)
God has always utilized the high office of His people in a special way. Caiaphas may well not have realized the impact of what he was saying. This is contrasted by similar comments of Jesus to Peter, who DID understand who Jesus was, when Jesus told Peter, "Blessed are you....for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father in heaven." In both instances, God works through the person holding the high office, but the New Covenant is the superior, more glorious type.
God moved upon hs heart to speak prophectically, even if he did not understand the full implications of what he said.
__________________ Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles.
John 11:49-52 "And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."
John 11:49 But, a certain one from among them, Caiaphas, being High-priest for that year said unto them "ye know nothing at all.
50 Neither ye are reckoning that expedient to ye that one Man may be dying over the people and no whole the Nation should be perishing.
Daniel 12:1 And in that time, Miyka'el shall standup, the Chief, the Great, the One-standing over sons of people of thee. [Revelation 12]
And a time of Tribulation becomes, which not occurred from to become of a Nation/01471 gowy, until the time, that.
Matt 24:21 "For then shall be Tribulation/qliyiV <2347> Great, the such as not has become from beginning of World til of the now, neither not no may be becoming
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Saint and Martyr William Tyndale (1494-1536)
LLOJ's Patron Saint
“I defy the Pope and all his laws. If God spare my life ere many years, I will cause the boy that drives the plow to know more of the scriptures than you!”
William Tyndale cried out "Lord, open the King of Englands eyes"
2 kings 6:17 And 'Eliysha` is praying and saying "YHWH, open! please! his eyes and he shall see"
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John 11:49-52 "And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."
Thoughts?
The following verses seem to indicate that Caiaphas did not believe that Jesus was the Christ. I don't see how Caiaphas could have ever believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, when Caiaphas himself wanted Jesus to be killed. Curious, what brings up the question?
Matthew 26:62-67 NKJV:
And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”
Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! What do you think?” They answered and said, “He is deserving of death.”
Then they spat in His face and beat Him; and others struck Him with the palms of their hands, saying, “Prophesy to us, Christ! Who is the one who struck You?”"
The following verses seem to indicate that Caiaphas did not believe that Jesus was the Christ. I don't see how Caiaphas could have ever believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, when Caiaphas himself wanted Jesus to be killed. Curious, what brings up the question?
Where in the Scriptures did Caiphas get the idea that one man would be dying for the Nation and that it was Jesus?
How did he know Jesus was about to die unless he knew Jesus as a Blasphemer?
Was he speaking of certain prophecies in the OT/OC that the other Judeans didn't know about or understand?
He didn't seem to mention about a Ressurection/Ascension of Jesus or the coming Tribulation/Wrath/Judgement coming upon that Nation after that.......Thougths?
John 11:51 This yet from himself not he spake, but Chief-priest being of that year, he prophesies that the Jesus was about/emellen <3195> (5707) to be dying for the Nation
Textus Rec.) John 11:51 touto de af eautou ouk eipen alla arciereuV wn tou eniautou ekeinou proefhteusen oti emelleno ihsouV apoqnhskein uper tou eqnouV
2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the God and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging living and dead according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him [Reve 11:18]
Last edited by LittleLambofJesus; 1st August 2009 at 02:45 PM.
A) Where in the Scriptures did Caiphas get the idea that one man would be dying for the Nation and that it was Jesus?
B) How did he know Jesus was about to die unless he knew Jesus as a Blasphemer?
C) Was he speaking of certain prophecies in the OT/OC that the other Judeans didn't know about or understand?
D) He didn't seem to mention about a Ressurection/Ascension of Jesus or the coming Tribulation/Wrath/Judgement coming upon that Nation after that.......Thougths?
Putting me to the test or just looking for answers?
A) Essentially, you are asking, "Why would Caiaphas make such a declaration?" Correct me if I am wrong on that. I think one reason might be that Caiaphas perhaps thought that Jesus and his followers would eventually cause the wrath of Rome to fall upon them, because Roman Law did not allow other sovereign kings in its empire except Caeser alone. So, since Caiaphas viewed that this man, Jesus of Nazareth, was a threat to his seat of power and influence (and perhaps also a threat to the entire nation of Israel) he wanted Jesus to be done away with to protect his position of spiritual and political leadership. Just some thoughts of mine. What do you think?
B) Sorry, not really sure I follow your question. Could you elaborate please? Sounds interesting though, I just want to better understand where you are coming from. It sounds like you are making the argument that the only reason Caiaphas would want to kill Jesus is if he understood Jesus to be a blasphemer. Am I following you correctly? Not that I disagree with that notion. I have never thought about it before in that sense. When was Jesus first considered a blasphemer by the chief priests, scribes, and Pharisees?
C) I don't think that Caiaphas had the OT prophecies in mind when he made such declarations. For he was a blind guide as Jesus had said previously. Yet, the Holy Spirit was using Caiaphas regardless to prophecy because of his position as High Priest that year.
D) Caiaphas was a Sadducee. The Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection, tribulation, heaven, hell, angels, or in spirits etc. The Pharisees however did believe in these things. Nicodemus was a Pharisee. Paul formerly known as Saul was a Pharisee as well. Paul as he himself pointed out to the Council in the book of Acts that he was being punished for his beliefs in the hope and resurrection of the dead. This divided the Council since it consisted of both Pharisees and Sadducees.
"But perceiving that one group were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, "Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!"
As he said this, there occurred a dissension between the Pharisees and Sadducees, and the assembly was divided.
For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all." Acts 23:6-8
Thoughts my friend?
Last edited by ToxicReboMan; 1st August 2009 at 04:36 PM.
John 11:49 But, a certain one from among them, Caiaphas, being High-priest for that year said unto them "ye know nothing at all.
50 Neither ye are reckoning that expedient to ye that one Man may be dying over the people and no whole the Nation should be perishing.
Daniel 12:1 And in that time, Miyka'el shall standup, the Chief, the Great, the One-standing over sons of people of thee. [Revelation 12]
And a time of Tribulation becomes, which not occurred from to become of a Nation/01471 gowy, until the time, that.
Matt 24:21 "For then shall be Tribulation/qliyiV <2347> Great, the such as not has become from beginning of World til of the now, neither not no may be becoming
He would have been well aware
Originally Posted by ToxicReboMan
The following verses seem to indicate that Caiaphas did not believe that Jesus was the Christ. I don't see how Caiaphas could have ever believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, when Caiaphas himself wanted Jesus to be killed. Curious, what brings up the question?
Since the last few days I've been mostly reading and posting stuff about the Jews and when I read John 11:49-52, especially the last 2 verses it dawned on me that John may be telling us here that Caiaphas knew Jesus was the Messiah and that he had to die.
__________________ William Tyndale cried out, "Lord, open the King of Englands eyes"
Since the last few days I've been mostly reading and posting stuff about the Jews and when I read John 11:49-52, especially the last 2 verses it dawned on me that John may be telling us here that Caiaphas knew Jesus was the Messiah and that he had to die.
Hello Tyndale
Ah, I think I see what happened here. I believe you are mistakenly taking what the narrator of the Gospel of John is saying as the "quoted words" of the High Priest Caiaphas himself. In actuality, all Caiaphas is actually recorded as saying is in verses 49-50 NKJV,"You know nothing at all, nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish." The actual quote stops right there. Verses 51 and 52 are thoughts given by the narrator which expound on the prophecy given by Caiaphas, the High Priest. John is explaining that not only did Jesus die for the nation as Caiaphas clearly stated, but He also died for those children of God who were scattered across the face of the earth that they might be gathered together in unity. That, I believe, is the meaning of verses 51 and 52. I don't think they mean that Caiaphas believed Jesus was the Messiah. If one reads verses 51 and 52 as if there are the quoted words of Caiaphas, I could see how other interpretations/ideas could easily arise.
John is explaining that not only did Jesus die for the nation as Caiaphas clearly stated, but He also died for those children of God who were scattered across the face of the earth that they might be gathered together in unity. That, I believe, is the meaning of verses 51 and 52. I don't think they mean that Caiaphas believed Jesus was the Messiah. If one reads verses 51 and 52 as if there are the quoted words of Caiaphas, I could see how other interpretations/ideas could easily arise.
Hope this proves useful.
Hi Reboman,
We'll probably need the original Greek here to find out what John is actually saying. Vs 52 starts "And not for that nation only, but that also..." which seems to continue on without there being any attempt to make us aware of a difference in vs 51 and 52. Maybe if someone is knowledgable in the structure of biblical verses they could shed some more light on this.
However, Caiaphas should have been aware that the Messiah:
- was to enter Jerusalem as a king riding on an ass (Zechariah 9:9)
- would be sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12)
- would be betrayed by a friend (Psalms 41:9)
- would have a messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" (Isaiah 40:3).....(Matthew 3:3)
- would be a Nazarene (Judges 13:5; Amos 2:11; Lam. 4:7)
- preach to the poor/brokenhearted/captives (Isaiah 61:1)
- spat upon, smitten and scourged (Isaiah 50:6, 53:5)
........Caiaphas would have been one pretty silly High-Priest if he hadn't had the slightest incline Jesus was the Messiah. The 30 pieces of silver spoken of in Zechariah should have triggered his interest if non of the other signs hadn't already.
__________________ William Tyndale cried out, "Lord, open the King of Englands eyes"
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