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  #1  
Unread 29th July 2009, 02:57 AM
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Who sits at Jesus right and left?

21 Who said to her: What wilt thou? She saith to him: Say that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left, in thy kingdom. 22 And Jesus answering, said: You know not what you ask. Can you drink the chalice that I shall drink? They say to him: We can. 23 He saith to them: My chalice indeed you shall drink; but to sit on my right or left hand, is not mine to give to you, but to them for whom it is prepared by my Father. 24 And the ten hearing it, were moved with indignation against the two brethren. 25 But Jesus called them to him, and said: You know that the princes of the Gentiles lord it over them; and they that are the greater, exercise power upon them.
Douay-Rheims Bible, Gospel According to Saint Matthew Chapter 20

This reading came up recently and I thought of asking for theories of who people think set at the Lords right and left.

Any guesses?
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"Wisdom enters through love, silence, and mortification. It is great wisdom to know how to be silent and to look at neither the remarks, nor the deeds, nor the lives of others." - St John of the Cross, OCD"

"Look for Christ Our Lord in everyone and you will then have respect and reverence for all."
- St Teresa of Jesus, OCD"

Rom 14:22 -
"Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is the one not condemning himself in what he approves."

"There are not a hundred people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church— which is, of course, quite a different thing." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen


"Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I love you very much. I beg you to spare the life of the unborn baby that I have spiritually adopted who is in danger of abortion." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen


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  #2  
Unread 29th July 2009, 03:10 AM
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I'd guess Mary for one, not sure of the other.
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Unread 29th July 2009, 09:36 AM
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Well Jesus is at the right hand of the Father, so that would make the Father on His left. And I tend to think Mary sits at His right hand.
  #4  
Unread 29th July 2009, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by polishbeast View Post
Well Jesus is at the right hand of the Father, so that would make the Father on His left. And I tend to think Mary sits at His right hand.
I've thought of that too but was kind of thinking of the Trinity as one.

I have little doubt of our Blessed Mother right there on Jesus left but there are so many other saints to pick from that could be on the right hand of the Trinity, or the Father, as you put it, that it gets a lot harder to guess.

Peter, Joseph, Abraham, Elijah, Moses, or even just everyone else and all of heaven. I guess its a wait and see occasion.
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"Wisdom enters through love, silence, and mortification. It is great wisdom to know how to be silent and to look at neither the remarks, nor the deeds, nor the lives of others." - St John of the Cross, OCD"

"Look for Christ Our Lord in everyone and you will then have respect and reverence for all."
- St Teresa of Jesus, OCD"

Rom 14:22 -
"Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is the one not condemning himself in what he approves."

"There are not a hundred people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church— which is, of course, quite a different thing." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen


"Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I love you very much. I beg you to spare the life of the unborn baby that I have spiritually adopted who is in danger of abortion." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen


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Last edited by JoabAnias; 29th July 2009 at 05:16 PM. Reason: errr correction.
  #5  
Unread 29th July 2009, 05:04 PM
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Thomas Aquinas had a few thoughts in the Summa...

SUMMA THEOLOGICA: Christ's sitting at the right hand of the Father (Tertia Pars, Q. 58)

In Part:

Article 1. Whether it is fitting that Christ should sit at the right hand of God the Father?


Objection 1. It would seem unfitting that Christ should sit at the right hand of God the Father. For right and left are differences of bodily position. But nothing corporeal can be applied to God, since "God is a spirit," as we read in John 4:24. Therefore it seems that Christ does not sit at the right hand of the Father.
Objection 2. Further, if anyone sits at another's right hand, then the latter is seated on his left. Consequently, if Christ sits at the right hand of the Father, it follows that the Father is seated on the left of the Son; which is unseemly. Objection 3. Further, sitting and standing savor of opposition. But Stephen (Acts 7:55) said: "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." Therefore it seems that Christ does not sit at the right hand of the Father.


Reply to Objection 1. As Damascene says (De Fide Orth. iv): "We do not speak of the Father's right hand as of a place, for how can a place be designated by His right hand, who Himself is beyond all place? Right and left belong to things definable by limit. But we style, as the Father's right hand, the glory and honor of the Godhead."
Reply to Objection 2. The argument holds good if sitting at the right hand be taken corporeally. Hence Augustine says (De Symb. i): "If we accept it in a carnal sense that Christ sits at the Father's right hand, then the Father will be on the left. But there"--that is, in eternal bliss, "it is all right hand, since no misery is there." Reply to Objection 3. As Gregory says in a Homily on the Ascension (Hom. xxix in Evang.), "it is the judge's place to sit, while to stand is the place of the combatant or helper. Consequently, Stephen in his toil of combat saw Him standing whom He had as his helper. But Mark describes Him as seated after the Ascension, because after the glory of His Ascension He will at the end be seen as judge."
  #6  
Unread 29th July 2009, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonks View Post
Thomas Aquinas had a few thoughts in the Summa...

SUMMA THEOLOGICA: Christ's sitting at the right hand of the Father (Tertia Pars, Q. 58)

In Part:

Article 1. Whether it is fitting that Christ should sit at the right hand of God the Father?


Objection 1. It would seem unfitting that Christ should sit at the right hand of God the Father. For right and left are differences of bodily position. But nothing corporeal can be applied to God, since "God is a spirit," as we read in John 4:24. Therefore it seems that Christ does not sit at the right hand of the Father.
Objection 2. Further, if anyone sits at another's right hand, then the latter is seated on his left. Consequently, if Christ sits at the right hand of the Father, it follows that the Father is seated on the left of the Son; which is unseemly. Objection 3. Further, sitting and standing savor of opposition. But Stephen (Acts 7:55) said: "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." Therefore it seems that Christ does not sit at the right hand of the Father.


Reply to Objection 1. As Damascene says (De Fide Orth. iv): "We do not speak of the Father's right hand as of a place, for how can a place be designated by His right hand, who Himself is beyond all place? Right and left belong to things definable by limit. But we style, as the Father's right hand, the glory and honor of the Godhead."
Reply to Objection 2. The argument holds good if sitting at the right hand be taken corporeally. Hence Augustine says (De Symb. i): "If we accept it in a carnal sense that Christ sits at the Father's right hand, then the Father will be on the left. But there"--that is, in eternal bliss, "it is all right hand, since no misery is there." Reply to Objection 3. As Gregory says in a Homily on the Ascension (Hom. xxix in Evang.), "it is the judge's place to sit, while to stand is the place of the combatant or helper. Consequently, Stephen in his toil of combat saw Him standing whom He had as his helper. But Mark describes Him as seated after the Ascension, because after the glory of His Ascension He will at the end be seen as judge."

Great stuff M. I have never envisioned any division in the Trinity and that quote puts it so well. Thanks.

I guess thats why I see no problem with double procession either. (as an aside)
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"Wisdom enters through love, silence, and mortification. It is great wisdom to know how to be silent and to look at neither the remarks, nor the deeds, nor the lives of others." - St John of the Cross, OCD"

"Look for Christ Our Lord in everyone and you will then have respect and reverence for all."
- St Teresa of Jesus, OCD"

Rom 14:22 -
"Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is the one not condemning himself in what he approves."

"There are not a hundred people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church— which is, of course, quite a different thing." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen


"Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I love you very much. I beg you to spare the life of the unborn baby that I have spiritually adopted who is in danger of abortion." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen


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  #7  
Unread 30th July 2009, 08:24 AM
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I asked this same question here in OBOB only a couple of weeks ago and didn't really get a decent answer (http://www.christianforums.com/t7385003/), particularly as I was asking what the Catholic Church teaches on this matter. I meant to respond but lost track of the thread as it quickly sank beyond the first page of OBOB.
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Unread 30th July 2009, 09:20 AM
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What has surprised me is that Catholics seem to be wholly ignorant of this knowledge while it is clearly understood in the Orthodox Church. This is commonly depicted on the iconostasis, though depending on the size of the church the saint on Christ's left may be the one the particular church is dedicated to. Panagia (Mary) is always depicted as standing at Christ's right hand, and apart from those churches which honour a particular saint in the limited space available to them, St John the Forerunner and Baptist is always on Christ's left hand. Sometimes they will be depicted thus in a single icon above the royal doors of the iconostasis.


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  #9  
Unread 30th July 2009, 09:41 AM
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interesting, I was wondering if the Byzantine Catholics have a more concrete view. The Iconography of the Orthodox church which is shared by the Byzantine Catholics demonstrate this in the Deisis Icon:

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  #10  
Unread 30th July 2009, 09:48 AM
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My goodness! Who is on the right and the left. The story isn't over as the end hasn't come to this world yet for any to find out that answer. Ya all are in the running for the right or left (believe the right hand would be the preferred?), as I am also!

Truly, though. I would be happy with any spot the dear Lord would give me in His presence. I personally think I might be light years in the distance from the dear Lord and will need heavenly binoculars. God bless.
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