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26th July 2009, 02:17 PM
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Reps: 273,058,856,457,603,328 (power: 273,058,856,457,625) | | | Omniscience and quantum mechanics
According to some, God is omniscient: he knows everything.
But, according to quantum mechanics, there are inherent limitations to just how much can be known about a given system. For example, knowing the position of a particle to a given degree of accuracy places insurmountable limitations on how accurate we can know its momentum (namely, ΔxΔpx ≥ ħ/2).
How, then, can God know everything? This uncertainty principle isn't the result of practical limitations to measurements, but is an inherent property of the quantum mechanical nature of the system. Just what does God know about the physical observables of a particle?
Does this relate to the qualifier, "God knows everything knowable"?
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26th July 2009, 02:32 PM
| | Gimme That Old Time Religion
 
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26th July 2009, 02:34 PM
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Reps: 56,048,296,120,276,176 (power: 56,048,296,120,282) | | | The reason for the limitation on measuring Quantum measurments, is when we measure something, we use energy to measure it, This energy is added / modifys what we are measuring. God though can measure without modifying what He is measuring. |
26th July 2009, 02:45 PM
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Reps: 273,058,856,457,603,328 (power: 273,058,856,457,625) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton  Are we a little bored today? Sitting around with nothing to do?
I got the idea from another thread, and I thought I'd pose this puzzler to this board. That's all. Originally Posted by MrJDSmith The reason for the limitation on measuring Quantum measurments, is when we measure something, we use energy to measure it, This energy is added / modifys what we are measuring. God though can measure without modifying what He is measuring.
As I said, this isn't to do with the practical limitations to us humans trying to measure quantum systems. These are fundamental limitations to how much one can know, regardless of how one gets the knowledge.
__________________ "I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
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- Charles Darwin
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."
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26th July 2009, 04:40 PM
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If God is who He says He is, then those limits will not apply to Him.
Omniscience is like that
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26th July 2009, 07:27 PM
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Reps: 474,698,394,322,854,976 (power: 474,698,394,322,865) | | | The bible says "God is Almighty" and things like "the hairs of your head are numbered". God may very well be omniscient in the strict, absolute way you're thinking of, but I don't think it's a critical matter to believe that. If God created a system where some things at some times could possibly be uknown to Him, it just means He has exercised his power to allow that because He deemed it good and wise to do so. |
26th July 2009, 07:32 PM
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Reps: 273,058,856,457,603,328 (power: 273,058,856,457,625) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton The bible says "God is Almighty" and things like "the hairs of your head are numbered". God may very well be omniscient in the strict, absolute way you're thinking of, but I don't think it's a critical matter to believe that. If God created a system where some things at some times could possibly be uknown to Him, it just means He has exercised his power to allow that because He deemed it good and wise to do so.
Fair enough.
__________________ "I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
"A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone."
- Charles Darwin
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."
- Christopher Hitchens
"Protecting the sanctity of marriage against people who want to get married"
- Anonymous
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27th July 2009, 04:07 AM
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Reps: 38,221,363,904,330 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Wiccan_Child According to some, God is omniscient: he knows everything.
But, according to quantum mechanics, there are inherent limitations to just how much can be known about a given system.
<snip>
You said you believed Buddha. Was he not then knowing everything.
As for any science being complete: no, it is not. Assuming that there is an absolute in any knowledge is a basic fallacy.
Actually, Paul said this best: 'knowledge puffs up, love builds up: we never really know anything as we should'.
Is it then wise to assume that modern understanding of quantum mechanics is so perfect to describe all things. Or wise to assume that something you believe is impossible may not be impossible.
It is a basic logic fallacy to assume that the unknown might be quantifiable. As you admit you do not know God, why try and quantify God.
We speak of God because we know God, but we are not believed. |
27th July 2009, 07:47 AM
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Reps: 273,058,856,457,603,328 (power: 273,058,856,457,625) | | Originally Posted by freeport You said you believed Buddha. Was he not then knowing everything.
I said I believe Gautama existed, not that I believe everything he said. Originally Posted by freeport As for any science being complete: no, it is not. Assuming that there is an absolute in any knowledge is a basic fallacy.
Actually, it's not: I absolutely know I exist, and I absolutely know the laws of logic (and everything derived thereof) are true. Apart from that, though... Originally Posted by freeport Actually, Paul said this best: 'knowledge puffs up, love builds up: we never really know anything as we should'.
Is it then wise to assume that modern understanding of quantum mechanics is so perfect to describe all things. Or wise to assume that something you believe is impossible may not be impossible.
Yes: all the evidence points to quantum mechanics being true, to the universe being inherently probabilistic and indeterminate. If the universe screams, "Giant balls of thermonuclear plasma exist!", is it foolish to believe otherwise? Originally Posted by freeport It is a basic logic fallacy to assume that the unknown might be quantifiable. As you admit you do not know God, why try and quantify God.
Because other people claim to know God. As far as I can see, their specific knowledge of God contradicts our general knowledge of the universe; one or the other has to give.
__________________ "I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
"A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone."
- Charles Darwin
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."
- Christopher Hitchens
"Protecting the sanctity of marriage against people who want to get married"
- Anonymous
Got a question about science?
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27th July 2009, 11:40 AM
| | Gimme That Old Time Religion
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Reps: 474,698,394,322,854,976 (power: 474,698,394,322,865) | | Originally Posted by Wiccan_Child Because other people claim to know God. As far as I can see, their specific knowledge of God contradicts our general knowledge of the universe; one or the other has to give.
What do you mean? Are you referring just to creation/young earth ideas, or something more? | | |
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