What do you mean? Are you referring just to creation/young earth ideas, or something more?
No no, nothing like that, though I can see how you got that. No, I'm talking about how Christians who say that God is omniscient are contradicting our understanding of the universe. A quantum mechanical universe is not deterministic: there are inherent limits on what you can know. An omniscience can't exist because the concept makes no sense in an indeterministic, quantum mechanical universe. Since our best understanding of the universe is that it is quantum mechanical (though that's not likely the end of the story), there's a paradox.
One has to give .
__________________
A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone.
- Charles Darwin
"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
What can be asserted without reason, can be denied without reason.
- Anon
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
God isn't limited by his creation. Whatever this system may be is part of his creation.
Originally Posted by Wiccan_Child
No, I'm talking about how Christians who say that God is omniscient are contradicting our understanding of the universe.
Maybe we don't perfectly understand the universe. Maybe most of what we think we know about it is wrong.
__________________ Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
- Proverbs 30:5-6
God isn't limited by his creation. Whatever this system may be is part of his creation.
Since we're talking about his creation, doesn't that seem moot? If his creation has fundamental limitations to what can be known about it, why would God be exempt from that? It's like saying God can violate basic arithmetic: 1 + 1 does equal 2 (in base 10, at least); God himself cannot change that.
Originally Posted by twistedsketch
Maybe we don't perfectly understand the universe. Maybe most of what we think we know about it is wrong.
Like I said: something has to give. In your case, you appear to give precedence to God: he is omniscient, and its our understanding of knowledge (and, thus, quantum mechanics) that is wrong.
__________________
A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone.
- Charles Darwin
"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
What can be asserted without reason, can be denied without reason.
- Anon
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Since we're talking about his creation, doesn't that seem moot? If his creation has fundamental limitations to what can be known about it, why would God be exempt from that?
Because God is distinct from his creation.
Originally Posted by Wiccan_Child
Like I said: something has to give. In your case, you appear to give precedence to God: he is omniscient, and its our understanding of knowledge (and, thus, quantum mechanics) that is wrong.
Right. He is omniscient. Nothing can truly disprove that.
__________________ Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
- Proverbs 30:5-6
The limitations exist nonetheless. If the universe is quantum mechanical, then omniscience is a logical paradox. Even God can't make a paradox. That God is distinct from his creation doesn't change this.
Originally Posted by twistedsketch
Right. He is omniscient. Nothing can truly disprove that.
Except, of course, a carefully worded refutation .
__________________
A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone.
- Charles Darwin
"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
What can be asserted without reason, can be denied without reason.
- Anon
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
The limitations exist nonetheless. If the universe is quantum mechanical, then omniscience is a logical paradox. Even God can't make a paradox. That God is distinct from his creation doesn't change this.
But you're making these assumptions which we don't know are true. God is not bound by what we can determine.
__________________ Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
- Proverbs 30:5-6
But you're making these assumptions which we don't know are true.
What assumptions, exactly?
Originally Posted by twistedsketch
God is not bound by what we can determine.
On the contrary, he is: when we use logic to prove this or that, the proven statement is true. It's not just true for 'our' universe, it's true regardless of what else is true (no matter what God does, A is identical to itself).
__________________
A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone.
- Charles Darwin
"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
What can be asserted without reason, can be denied without reason.
- Anon
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
On the contrary, he is: when we use logic to prove this or that, the proven statement is true. It's not just true for 'our' universe, it's true regardless of what else is true (no matter what God does, A is identical to itself).
How can you be so confident that the logic which applies in this reality must apply in any possible reality? If you were a two dimensional being living in a two dimensional universe, wouldn't a cube defy logic, and be impossible? I guess you wouldn't be able to even imagine the idea of a cube.
As you increase dimensions, as from a point, to a line, a square, a cube, things become possible which were not possible before. Christianity makes odd claims, no doubt, such as omniscience, and a single God who is three persons, and a being who is fully human and fully God at the same time. But there's a sense in which I think these types of things are almost intuitive. If there's a reality above this one ("above" in the sense of being larger than, and more encompassing and comprehending of this one), I might expect it could very well be like the thing which Christianity vaguely hints at.
How can you be so confident that the logic which applies in this reality must apply in any possible reality?
Because the truth of logic isn't determined by whatever reality the individual finds himself. "1 + 1 = 2" is a true statement, and it remains true without any reference to reality or external factors.
Originally Posted by Chesterton
If you were a two dimensional being living in a two dimensional universe, wouldn't a cube defy logic, and be impossible? I guess you wouldn't be able to even imagine the idea of a cube.
But that doesn't mean it's logically impossible. We 3D creatures have evolved to comprehend three spatial dimensions, but have never needed to comprehend a fourth. Using mathematics (ironically), we can completely describe objects in higher dimensions, and even image them. Enter the terrasect:
Counter-intuitivity just makes things hard to imagine. It doesn't make them logically impossible.
But logical paradoxes are impossible. Even if we accept that somehow logic somehow stops working when you get to God's level, there's still one problem: we're talking about the real world, about the world in which logic does apply.
Originally Posted by Chesterton
Christianity makes odd claims, no doubt, such as omniscience, and a single God who is three persons, and a being who is fully human and fully God at the same time. But there's a sense in which I think these types of things are almost intuitive. If there's a reality above this one ("above" in the sense of being larger than, and more encompassing and comprehending of this one), I might expect it could very well be like the thing which Christianity vaguely hints at.
Well, that's because you're a Christian . Hindus and Buddhists probably imagine the 'higher' reality to be something more akin to that described by Dharmic philosophies.
__________________
A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone.
- Charles Darwin
"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
What can be asserted without reason, can be denied without reason.
- Anon
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Because the truth of logic isn't determined by whatever reality the individual finds himself.
How can you know this? You've only ever been in the one reality you're working with now.
"1 + 1 = 2" is a true statement, and it remains true without any reference to reality or external factors.
You have to reference every logic statement to this reality, don't you? I mean, you're in it.
But that doesn't mean it's logically impossible. We 3D creatures have evolved to comprehend three spatial dimensions, but have never needed to comprehend a fourth. Using mathematics (ironically), we can completely describe objects in higher dimensions, and even image them. Enter the terrasect:
Counter-intuitivity just makes things hard to imagine. It doesn't make them logically impossible.
Can you explain how a terrasect is 4-dimensional? I only see height, width and length; a cube inside a larger, mishapen cube.
But logical paradoxes are impossible. Even if we accept that somehow logic somehow stops working when you get to God's level, there's still one problem: we're talking about the real world, about the world in which logic does apply.
I agree that a contradiction is impossible, but I don't think that what makes for a contradiction in one time and place has to make for a contradiction in another time and place (or in the absence of time and place: eternity).
Well, that's because you're a Christian . Hindus and Buddhists probably imagine the 'higher' reality to be something more akin to that described by Dharmic philosophies.
It doesn't make sense to me because I'm a Christian; I'm a Christian because it makes sense to me.
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. Hindus and Buddhists probably imagine the 'higher' reality to be something more akin to that described by Dharmic philosophies. 
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