Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
Christianity & Evolution Are Compatible...A Reflection
Hi, I'm new, and I just wanted to expound on creationism. Also, when I use the word creationism, I also mean intelligent design.
First of all, Christians can believe in God and evolution, and be 100% content in their compatibility. If anyone states that evolution disproves god, or that you can't be a christian and believe in evolution, just know...they are full of it...
Creationism is full of logical holes and assumptions based on ideological grounds...in fact, I believe it puts God in a box, a box which he does not belong. It limits God to an interpretation not based in reality. Why is it not based in reality? Because the scientific data does not support it. Science itself allows the experiment to dictate the results. But creationists turn this on its head. They know the answer. They are simply trying to make the experiment fit into their preconceived view of reality. That is not science. And if you believe in God, you should also believe that science is the pursuit of knowing the mind of God.
Creationism relies on a false dichotemy. The creationists I have seen (i.e. Ken Ham, etc) main goal is not to prove creationism. Their main goal is disprove evolution, and the logic is, "If we disprove evolution, then creationism must be right." Unfortunately for them, disproving evolution does not prove creationism, especially given the fact that the proposition, "God created the universe", is a completely unprovable proposition within the realm of science. So to say creationism is science is a blatant oxymoron because "God" cannot be empirically studied. Intelligent design included.
Evolution says nothing about god or the existence god. If anything, if you are a Christian, you should be amazed at the fact of evolution, biological and cosmic. That God, in his logic, created a universe which evolves according to physical laws, and this evolution, after 13.7 billion years, resulted in you. It took 13.7 billion years of evolution for you to exist, and the fact that you even exist, that all the events during this insurmountable amount of time, resulted in your birth, is simply amazing. Evolution is a miracle and to deny it, in my opinion, is to deny reality. It is a fact, and if God created this universe, and us, it was done by evolution.
The Bible is full of wisdom, history, and theology. But it is NOT a scientific document. Let me repeat that. THE BIBLE IS NOT A SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENT. There is a real problem with creationist "science" because it is based on a non-scientific document and assumed to be the answer to all scientific questions of our origins.
One of creationists main focuses are human evolution. They just cannot believe that we evolved from ape-like ancestors, or single-celled organisms. A good one I've heard while in church was, "They want us to believe we evolved from pond scum! Pond scum." Well, perhaps not "pond scum", but we are essentially made out of dirt. Even the bible says (Gen 2:7), "the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." 13.7 billion years condensed into one sentence! Amazing! All living things are made of the same carbon based chemical concoction. Yes, we are made of the same stuff as trees, fish, and yes, apes. That is not to say we are a tree or fish or an ape (though we are in the same super-family).
So to conclude. Evolution is a fact. If you are a Christian and questioning whether you can believe in God and evolution, you can! Wonder in amazement that an almost infinite number of events over a incomprehensible amount of time (13.7 billion years), led to your birth, your life, both of which, should have statistically never happened! Reflect on that.
I think evolution and some forms of theism are compatible, but not evolution and Christianity.
Christianity relies on the concept of original sin. Evolution shows that creatures suffered and died before mankind was ever around, which means the world was never perfect unless perfection somehow includes a lot of suffering and death.
-Lyn
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I think evolution and some forms of theism are compatible, but not evolution and Christianity.
I have to disagree. Many of my biology/geology/etc professors accepted evolution but were Christian. They were Catholic, Methodist, Episcopalian, and Presbyterian. None were Baptist.
Christianity relies on the concept of original sin.
It doesn't necessarily have to be "original sin". It depends on how you interpret Genesis.
Evolution shows that creatures suffered and died before mankind was ever around,
It never actually states that nothing died before the fall. Adam and Eve were immortal only because they ate from the Tree of Life. If nothing else ate from it, they would die.
which means the world was never perfect unless perfection somehow includes a lot of suffering and death.
It was called "perfect" either. It was called "good" or "very good".
__________________ Slug's 1st Law of YECism- Genesis 1-9 must be interpreted literally. Slug's 2nd Law of YECism- Any other verses can be interpreted liberally to support the 1st Law. Slug's 3rd Law of YECism- Make up any extra-Biblical claim, no matter how wild, to wave-away evidence in violation of the 1st Law.
"If God sent a wind from space, and blew waters off the surface, for example, the waters would go down. Just as if you take a cup full of water over a sink, and blow hard on it, a lot will go out of the cup. Elementary." -dad ^This statement nullifies his own argument by comparing a "present state" event to a "past state" event!
I think evolution and some forms of theism are compatible, but not evolution and Christianity.
Christianity relies on the concept of original sin. Evolution shows that creatures suffered and died before mankind was ever around, which means the world was never perfect unless perfection somehow includes a lot of suffering and death.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we 'copying errors'?
'Mutants' from the ocean?
God wouldn't put something into operation that relied on 'copying errors'.
Not if the event you describe as an error was part of his creation plan. Who are you to say what God is to do and not do?
What about putting into operation a "perfect" existence with a magic-entropy fruit tree of death and giving us a choice that we wouldn't actually comprehend until after the fact as the centrepiece?
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