Are dogs an example of evolution?

Steezie · #1 21st July 2009, 07:45 PM

I've always considered dogs to be an example of evolution. However I like to have things be tossed around by the community every now and then so I'd like to pose the question and open the floor.

Are dogs an example of evolution in action?

Even the most hardcore Creationist can accept that dogs are an offshoot of the wolf. Dogs can and do interbreed with wolves in the wild.

However when you start talking about what defines a species, I've been told and considered that two species were defined as two separate bodies of animals that cannot breed with each other, IE: Humans and horses.

Now if you take a look at dogs, a lot of dogs can and do interbreed. But if you start looking at all the dog breeds, there are breeds that cannot interbreed naturally.

On the extremes, you have the Chihuahua and the Irish Sheepdog. Now, for obvious reasons, there is no natural way for these two breeds of dog to interbreed with each other and a Chihuahua certainly cannot interbreed with wolves.

So are we now to consider certain dogs as their own species? If we are, then we have to take this as proof of concept for evolution. A new species can be bred through external pressures. In this case the pressures are human instead of natural, but again this is proof of concept.

Alunyel · #2 21st July 2009, 08:17 PM

To answer the question "Are dogs an example of evolution?", yes. They are. Everything that's alive today is an example of evolution, as well as everything that's ever been alive. It's a pretty pointless question.

It's like asking "Is Ben and Jerry's an example of ice cream?" or "Is the Aston DB9 an example of a car?".

plindboe · #3 21st July 2009, 08:31 PM

I've always found it curious how creationists can accept the immense changes that have happened in the "wolf kind", from wolves to small grotesquely looking monsters

and from wolves to gentle, silly-looking giants

all within such a short time frame. Yet they think that macroevolution is somehow impossible.

Peter

Steezie · #4 21st July 2009, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Alunyel

To answer the question "Are dogs an example of evolution?", yes. They are. Everything that's alive today is an example of evolution, as well as everything that's ever been alive. It's a pretty pointless question.

It's like asking "Is Ben and Jerry's an example of ice cream?" or "Is the Aston DB9 an example of a car?".

I should have been more clear.

Are dogs a complete example of evolution in action?

Washington · #5 21st July 2009, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Steezie

I've always considered dogs to be an example of evolution. However I like to have things be tossed around by the community every now and then so I'd like to pose the question and open the floor.

Are dogs an example of evolution in action?

Even the most hardcore Creationist can accept that dogs are an offshoot of the wolf. Dogs can and do interbreed with wolves in the wild.

However when you start talking about what defines a species, I've been told and considered that two species were defined as two separate bodies of animals that cannot breed with each other, IE: Humans and horses.

This definition, which often came with a slew of provisos, has been all but abandoned, although it is true that very few species can successfully interbreed. Unfortunately, the biological sciences have yet to come up with a universal definition of "species." The most widely used definition, based on the biological concept of species, usually takes a form akin to that formulated by biologist Ernst Mayr. Mayr contends that a species is a "reproductive isolated aggregate of populations which can interbreed with one another because they share the same isolating mechanisms."

So are we now to consider certain dogs as their own species? If we are, then we have to take this as proof of concept for evolution. A new species can be bred through external pressures. In this case the pressures are human instead of natural, but again this is proof of concept.

There is an ongoing push to reclassify dogs (up to now considered to make up the species Canis familiaris) as a subspecies of wolf: C. lupus familiaris.

Washington · #6 21st July 2009, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Steezie

I should have been more clear.

Are dogs a complete example of evolution in action?

Yes they are, but don't take the variety of breeds as an indication. Artificially created variants--breeds, cultivers, etc--- are not considered to be evolved forms, but man made variations.