This is a good question my friend. I am afraid that many in the Word-Faith have made the mistake of every denomination and movement in history. When we study church history we see that every single major move of God had miracles manifested with it. Even Martin Luther, who taught cessationism actually had a powerful healing ministry.
John and Charles Wesley and the Methodist movement had numerous miracles and manifestations. Yet look at most Methodist churches today. The Holiness movement, the Higher-Life movement, the Faith-Cure movement of the 1800s, the Pentecostal Movement, the Charismatic Movement, and then the Word-Faith MOvement all came with power and manifestations and encouragement through the gifts of the Spirit.
I saw a lot of it when I first came to Christ in the 80s (some of my friends who came into the movement in the 70s tell me that this was when the power of God was truly on display). I saw much of it subtly die in the 90s, except with occasional spurts here and there.
It seems like the Vineyard churches, many who contend with WoF theology, see more manifestations of the Spirit than Word-Chruches. I wondered why until I read some of their books. While I disagree with much Vineyard theology, I see that they expect a move of God and allow for the freedom of God in their services.
Word-Faith churches can be just as bad as any doctrinaire denomination, focusing on the core doctrines of their particular group and not focusing on the desires of God to move in their midst. While I also strongly disagree with the Word-Faith critics and their rhetoric, sometimes they raise some valid points, such as faith preachers regurgitating each others books (well, what group doesn't do that though?). The point is that many of the books on faith say the same thing: What faith is, how faith comes, make proper confessions, use your authority, the Name of Jesus, etc.
All of these are truths that have not only built a foundation in my life, but have more than likely saved my life. Furthermore, these principles need to be repeated over and over again because, hopefully, you will always have new believers coming in to the church. But the principles apart from a manifestation of God's presence and power is nothing but dead doctrine.
Thank God that there are still WoF preachers such as Ted Shuttlesworth and others who have powerful manifestations in their meetings (God often gives Shuttlesworth words of knowledge concerning people that are accurate to the tee and healings manifest powerfully in his meetings - blind eyes, deaf ears and things like that are healed completely in his meetings).
I long to see God manifest His presence in our church and continue to pray.
__________________ Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
This thread intrigues and encourages me. Our own fellowship has spurned new Spiritual growth in the last year. We are pushing farther towards the hardline of submitting to His Authority, bringing and remaining in the Kingdom of God and farther from what we call the "Sloppy Agape" being taught in so many churches today. God is giving us favor in the community, love abounds in our church, and we are known throughout the area - of nearly 150 churches - we are the ones known for our Love and Joy. We make no bones about why we are here, and what our purpose is. We are God centered, Spirit lead, and ever watching Him for guidance and direction. We are under Apostolic leadership, and our church leadership is submitted to the Authority that God has placed on our Pastor. No arguements, no quarrells, and certainly no questions because our leadership actively discern what is of the Spirit and we move and flow as He does within us.
I've not been to many other churches so I can't say what goes on in them.
However, my pastor has a couple of pastor friends that travel and when they come to our church they tell us that there aren't many like us out there.
We've also been told by many pastors and visitors that they can feel the love when they walk in the door. Praise God!
We ask the Holy Spirit to do what He sees fit to do. We try not to hinder Him.
We don't have a large church and I would say that almost to a person we want to go deeper in the things God has for us. We want to see His glory! We want people that come to be saved, healed and delivered! We desire to see these things.
And while we want these things to happen in our services we are encouraged to minister to others outside the 'church walls'.
We are balanced with the Word. We minister to each other. The women that don't work get together once a week and pray. Some great things have come from those prayers. And one night a week the church is open for all to come and pray. A group gets together before services to pray. We believe in the power of prayer!
We feel God is preparing us for some mighty things. We seek His face about these things. He is teaching us to yield to Him. Our children are learning this also. We believe and expect God to do the things He said He would do!
__________________ Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it, autograph your work with excellence.
Fear- that's why we do not have the move of God in Word Churches. Afraid of what the visitor may say, the big giver, etc. I have seen and been guilty of it.
However, an Evangelist friend of mine recently reminded me of what Wigglesworth said, in prophesying prior to his departure. That there would come a generation who knew who they were and understand the Word and would rise up and do miracles.
Others have prophesied it, but it takes being willing to lose some church members, which I did, but praise God we are moving on with the Holy Ghost.
The other aspect is desire on the part of the congregation. I also volunteer at a prison. I have seen the gifts in operation at about the same level I saw in Central America. They desire more of God, because without Him, they have nothing. We have to teach on the gifts and desiring the gifts to be in operation.
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"I am a spirit being. I have a soul. And I live in a body. Saying that helped me become more spirit-concious. It helped my faith, because faith is of the spirit, or the heart." Kenneth E. Hagin
Sounds like that "sloppy agape" I was talking about.
Hi Leadworship!
You have returned! ( or maybe you've been back awhile and I have returned, for the moment)
Yes that could be part of it. Of course its not just Word churches, many others are like that. I just didn't think some would fall into that and become like them since I've always heard then warn against it. Its got to be a combination Word AND the Spirit. I think most of the Word churches are good though.
I used to a attend a WOF church where the gifts of the spirit would often go on for half an hour. One after another would get up to prophesy. We got everything from poems to political battle cries, and plenty of foretelling of future events, which is not what simple prophecy is supposed to be about, as I understand it. Sometimes the gifts were directed at individuals, and sometimes with embarrassing and hurtful results.
I said all that to point out what has scarred some people away from charismatic churches. Most of what happened in that church was very good, but enough was strange so that it could be alarming to visitors (and regulars).
Over the years, many pastors have gotten a stomach full of this kind of stuff, and perhaps they've become a little gun-shy as a result.
There has also arisen over the past decade or two a new "prophetic" movement that seems to breed a lot of hyper-prophesying on the part of some it's adherents. I'm not trying to put them down, but you can visit other corners of this forum and find these folks. They want to prophesy too quickly about future events, and are too quick to offer personal prophesies to hungry individuals.
Brother Hagin spoke often about these kind of excesses. I'm not telling anyone else what to believe, or what to do, but I am offering some reasons why some Pastors may be putting the brakes on a little of the activity that used to be more prominent.
Besides that, if we are to blame the Pastors, then we should look at the attendees as well, who come hoping to be impressed, entertained and sang to instead of bringing the supply of the Spirit like we are supposed to.
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