Christianity & Evolution Are Compatible...A Reflection

CoderHead · #11 21st September 2009, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by salida

Jesus lineage was a descendent of King David-the bible is historically accurate with christian and nonchristian scholars.

I don't understand though. The lineage is traced through Joseph. How is that accurate?

plindboe · #12 21st September 2009, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by salida

I will prove the Bible is true just by using biblical prophecies alone. For thousands of years the Hebrew scriptures predicted that a Messiah would one day come. The Old Testament details over three hundred prophecies about Jesus that were fulfilled in the New Testament. Prophecies such as his birth, where he was born, lineage, betrayed by a friend for 30 pieces of silver, he was spat on and beaten, he was silent before accusers.

Of course jews dismiss all of these "prophecies" as misunderstandings, wishful thinking and self-fulfilling prophecy.

Originally Posted by salida

Mathematically, the odds that one person would fulfill just 8 prophecies is 1 in 10 to the 17th power. If 48 of these prophecies are fulfilled these odds get even higher - to 10 to the 157th power.

Calculated how?

Originally Posted by salida

Mathematicians say that anything over 10 to the 50th is impossible.

No mathematician in his right mind would say such a silly thing.

Here's a thing you can try. Take a deck of cards. Draw one card at a time and put it down on a table in front of you in the order they were picked. When all the cards are on the table, what's the chance that you ended up with that exact order? Here's how it's calculated:

1 / (52 x 51 x 50 x 49 x ......) = 1 / 52! = 1,2 x 10E-68

i.e. impossible, according to you, and your imaginary mathematician.

Originally Posted by salida

The millions of years theory is darwinism; evolving over time and improving throughout millions of years. What counts is who has the most evidence here; I don't care what concept you want to call it.

This doesn't address anything I said to you. Do you not understand what I wrote, or is it because you're too prideful to admit that you were wrong?

My beef with your prior post was that you misrepresented the views of your opponents. Do you now accept that you misrepresented them? Did you ask yourself why you felt the need to misrepresent other people's viewpoints? Did you come up with an answer?

Peter

TerranceL · #13 22nd September 2009, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by salida

Virgin birth
Jesus Birth:Isaiah 7:14
Prophecy written:701-681BC
Prophecy fulfilled:5 BC

Messiah born in Bethlehem: Micah 5:1-2
Prop written: 750-686BC
Prop fulfilled: 5BC

Messiah Tribe of Judah: Gen 49:10
Prop written: 1400BC
Prop fulfilled: 5BC

Messiah descendent of King David: Jeremiah 23:5
Prop written: 626-586BC
Prop fulfilled: 2000 years ago

Jesus betrayed by friend: Ps 41:9
Prop written: 1000BC
Prop fulfilled: 31AD

Betrayed by 30 pieces of silver: Zech 11:12-13
Prop written: 520-518BC
Prop fulfilled: 31AD

Jesus spat on and beaten: Isaiah 50:6
Prop written: 701-681BC
Prop fulfilled: 31AD

Jesus silent before accusers: Isaiah 53:7
Prop written: 701-681BC
Prop fulfilled: 31AD

Now if only ANY of those prophecies were anywhere near explicit.

Using the bible to prove the bible is silly.

The millions of years theory is darwinism; evolving over time and improving throughout millions of years. What counts is who has the most evidence here; I don't care what concept you want to call it.

Your right on that part, it's where the evidence is. This is why creationism is a joke.

plindboe · #14 22nd September 2009, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by 70x7

So since we cannot "prove" the existance of God using our science, He does not exist?

That's not what he said. Why put words in his mouth?

Peter

salida · #15 22nd September 2009, 01:19 PM

Oh, there is more than one mathematician that is silly. Yeah, right blame the mathematician. The odds of prophesy happening in detail is very small and I only discussed Christ in a few ways. To me this is common sense. Can you predict something in 500 years with great detail and be 100% accurate? Or in 1000 or more years if its so silly?

salida · #16 22nd September 2009, 02:14 PM

I will give you outside sources about Christ. That isn't difficult either. I will mention a portion out of many historians:

Jewish Talmud
Tannaitic Period: from 70 AD to 200AD- Sanhedrin 43a:
"On the eve of the passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out in front of him for 40 days, saying: "He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and lead Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead on his behalf." (These jews who wrote this despised him)

From this we know Jesus existed, was crucified (hanged on a tree) on the eve of the passover, he performed miracles (jews called this sorcery), he lead many people away from legalistic jewish teaching, the jewish leaders were plotting to kill Jesus.

Historian Tacitus; He wrote a 12 volume set called the Annuals which spans the historical period from the reign of Tiberius (from a point predating the ministry of Jesus) to the reigns of Claudius and the beginning of Nero's (the last years of Paul's ministry). He wrote in 115AD - Christus (founder of christianity) was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea. Tacitus was antichristian.

Historian Phlegon; Origen,184-254AD; Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes that took place.

Documents that prove bible is true not in bible:
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

-Historical Accuracy
The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago, yet has not been proven incorrect on any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament - starts at 25 years - between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies
New Testament - 5,686
Homer - 643
Demosthenes - 200
Plato - 7
Caesar - 10

salida · #17 22nd September 2009, 02:18 PM

All I have heard is how creation is a joke but have seen no references to your view point of why? Saying this over and over doesn't make it more true; in fact, its all sounding very childish. I showed you just a portion of my evidence. I will be waiting for the other view point.

salida · #18 22nd September 2009, 02:26 PM

CoderHead-

I'm not sure why you don't understand this. I will get a online site showing this.

salida · #19 22nd September 2009, 02:45 PM

CoderHead-

I don't know here your getting your information from but your claim isn't correct.

The Line of Jesus through Joseph

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham was the father of Isaac, and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram, and Ram the father of Amminadab, and Amminadab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon, and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse, and Jesse the father of David the king. And David was the father of Solomon by the wife of Uriah, and Solomon the father of Rehoboam, and Rehoboam the father of Abijah, and Abijah the father of Asa, and Asa the father of Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, and Joram the father of Uzziah, and Uzziah the father of Jotham, and Jotham the father of Ahaz, and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah, and Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, and Manasseh the father of Amos, and Amos the father of Josiah, and Josiah the father of Jechoniah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon. And after the deportation to Babylon: Jechoniah was the father of Shealtiel, and Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel, and Zerubbabel the father of Abiud, and Abiud the father of Eliakim, and Eliakim the father of Azor, and Azor the father of Zadok, and Zadok the father of Achim, and Achim the father of Eliud, and Eliud the father of Eleazar, and Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

Cabal · #20 22nd September 2009, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by salida

Oh, there is more than one mathematician that is silly. Yeah, right blame the mathematician.

No, we blame the terrible usage of "probabilities" in that argument. It's quite clear no actual mathematicians were involved. But way to avoiding dodging the rebuttal issued to it.