This will be my last post in this thread. Not out of animosity, but it gets to be too time consuming to attempt to persuade against one's indoctrination.
Regarding national Israel old covenant Israel being an entity of the old covenant only
No, you are wrong. And I believe that this lies at the core of your misunderstanding. National Israel existed and will exist in the future as a fulfillment of the unconditional Abrahamic Covenant. It is NOT a part of the “Old Covenant” a.k.a. the Mosaic Covenant. Again, read Heb.9:18-20. This defines exactly what the Old Covenant was. Covenants made before the Mosaic Covenant are NOT a part of it, and thus are NOT abrogated by its abolition. You must not try to lump every covenant in the Bible together with the Mosaic Covenant and say it is just one covenant called the “Old Covenant”. This is scripture-twisting! Each covenant with its terms and conditions (if any) MUST be considered separately. Failure to distinguish properly among these various covenants can only lead to endless confusion and very bad theology.
Again we disagree on the point of what was the old covenant. Read Duet 29 again. Heb 9:18-20 says that the old covenant "Contained" the commandments made in Pentacost. And that is correct with what I'm saying. The covenant of the 10 commandment 'law' was part of the overall conditional blessings promised to the Israelites in the land. But it was all the rules/regulations/commandments and instructions and the condiitonal aspect of remaining blessed in the land as a nation by obeying them. The giving of the law was Part of but not all that there was to the old covenant if's/thens. And it is not the giving of the Law at Pentacost the Jeremiah referred to when he said that the "new" covenant would be NOT LIKE the old. Again, the old covenant was begun with the lambs blood over the doorway while in Egypt, NOT with the covenant made in Horeb/Sainia. This is one difference of the symbolisms of baptism by immersion (saved through the lambs blood and putting total faith in God he would cause the resurrection after being trapped against the red sea and then transversing through the red sea...in water and by water....
Baptism now saves by the pledge of a good conscience and allegience to Christ as king... It's a citizenship thing, not only recieving a pouring out...
In the underlined point above: again this is what Paul argues against in Gal 3 and Romans 4,5. Again, Abraham was a Gentile of the cities of the dispersion after Babel.
Again, Duet 27:9.
And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the LORD thy God.
This was written after being given the national if/then conditional covenant. By saying that they were the people of God, he was calling the gentile nations 'not' the people of God at that time, but not before.
No, not at all! It is just another “nail in the coffin”; Read Matt 24:2 carefully:
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Please include verse 1 in the context of what they are talking about. 1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
I can't believe that were having this discussion yet. Again, this is one of the very weakest arguments about 'this generation' could not have meant the first century generation. Above, in the conversation with the disciples it is easily seen that Jesus was referring to the buildings of the temple about which the disciples asked AND about when That building would be destroyed.
And in addition there is much uncertainty about what the present wailing wall is/was. Some say it is part of a wall built by a Roman Emporer in 400 AD. Every eyewitness account after the desolation claims that if one was not told that they were standing in Jerusalem, they would never have guess that a town of any size had existed there, let alone a metropolis of Jerusalem.
Again, ask yourself why Jesus would imply to his disciples that the temple wouild be torn down, and it was torn down, if he really meant some distant 3000 yr later temple. And when saying that not one stone would be left upon another, it was a prophecy about how the Roman soldiers would pry the huge foundation stones off of one another to get the gold that had melted down through the cracks.
It says “all these things”! It does not say just the temple proper, or just some of the structures. And “all these things” MUST include the entire temple complex, including all of the walls, buildings… everything! And if everything were fulfilled in the first century A.D., then I would say that statements such as those made in Matt. 24:29-31 and 40-41 were very deceptive. In fact, I would even say that all of the arguments that I have ever heard in defense of preterism, and not just those you have mentioned here, are all little more than grasping at straws!
Matt 24:29: was particularly addressed in my opening entry. If Matt 24:29 is intended to be physical stars and moon, then also Isaiahs discussion of the exact same wording would have also had to refer to physical sun/moon/stars. But the very context of Isaiahs entry explains that this language symbolically meant the changing of govornment from the Babylonians to the Medes/Persians.
You did not respond or consider this information. Please address what sun,moon and stars refers to in Matt 24 by seeing what it refers to in Isaiah.
I doubt whether these writings of Adam Clarke are much more credible than articles in the National Enquirer. Now this is grasping at straws!
Peace... If Clarke were the only one saying these things, you may have an argument. AS it is they originated in Josephus and Tacticus, the two historians of the day. And this perspective was common through the church especially in Eusebuis church history and so forth. Interestingly, I liken the futurist rapture doctrine as coming from the fiction pages of the NI.
No, the situation in Judea in the first century A.D. just does not “cut it” as a fulfillment. First of all, there was only a remnant in the land at that time, and they were under Roman occupation. Also, they were only there for another forty years. Ezekiel and other prophets repeatedly describe a future time of great peace and well-being, and without any threat from outside. There is, to date, simply no time in history that fits this picture. Ezekiel 36:22-28 HAS to lie in the future.
Then you deny that Daniels prayer in chapter 9 was the fulfillment and confession neccessary to bring the people back from EVERY nation as is mentioned in the very text itself. Which is accurate? Your indoctrination or the scripture record itself. Additionally Paul and Peter say that men from every tribe and from every part of the world were in Jerusalem during Pentacost.
Since the new covenant is individual and internal, the Peace spoken about is just as much personal and internal among the sons of Israel as it would be national. In fact, if it were not for judaism and the denial of Christs having already come in the flesh, some believe that there would be no wars. Rothschilds mother stated the very concept on her deathbed, saying that if her sons did not want wars, there would be none.
The idea of a “spiritual Israel” is a myth. There is no such thing in Scripture. Believers are called “seed of Abraham” and even “true Jews”, but NEVER “Israel”. That word is reserved for the physical descendants of Jacob, a.k.a. Israel. You cannot quote Scriptures that use the first two terms and then do a subtle “shell game”, and substitute the word “Israel”! You HAVE to keep these terms straight!
The term 'descendants' or generations of Israel are different terminology than the "seed" of Israel. Paul defines 'seed' of Abraham as referring to Christ and also to those of similar justification by faith (of like seed) as Abraham. Likewise the "seed" of Israel infers those who of being like seed as Israel 'wrestled' and reasoned with God concerning their mortality and destiny. And they (us)through being given a new name (of the son of God) obtain a transformed life. John 1:12 states, for those who recieved him he gave the power to become 'sons of God' even to those who believed on His name (His GOOD character)
Abraham was given some promises that were to be and were fulfilled 'in his generations". That I take to mean his descendancies. Other promises were given to him and his "SEED". Those are and were fulfilled in those like Abraham are justified by faith and walk in his steps.
Gal 6:16 calls those who walk accoriding to this rule the "Israel of God".
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Is summarized after discussing the "promise" to Abraham and the election according to God's purpose in vs 23,24
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory..........Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
It doesn't get much Clearer that the 'seed' of Israel or 'all Israel" is referring to the Spiritual qualities of regeneration according to election, promise, and other spiritual qualities...... even of the gentiles.
I already answered that in my earlier post. Read it again if you don’t remember what I said. Also note that Jesus said that the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations and then shall the end come. (See Matt.24:14). That does not mean just the Mediterranean region. Even if Thomas made it to India, that is still a far cry from the whole world! Again, also read my previous posts.
[/quote]
Again, in disagreement. Paul uses the same phrases of 'Whole world' saying that the gospel has been proclaimed (past tense) to the 'whole world'. The basic intent is/was that the Gospel (including the teaching of the ending of the old covneant and the destruction of Jerusalem) was taught to those called to believe amon ALL nations as a testimony to them that God's blessing was to all races and nations and that it was not thorugh the law, but through MERCY.And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
World: oikomene
From Strongs, it is difficult to tell which sense is meant from just the word, but it is most often referring to the greek world.... and rightly so as a testimony to those surrounding the area who would witness the end of the old covenant age.
__________________ One ironic tragedy of futurism/dispensationalism is that it's rabbi's/teachers take a prophecy about the Messiah's confirmation and establishment of The Everlasting covenant of Mercy, Love and Life and twist it to impose an interpretation of a political leader in a figurative red suit with horns who makes, then breaks a treaty. In doing so, they internally side with the spirit which denies, minimizes Christ's having come in the flesh and the centrality of the Everlasting covenant of Mercy .. aka Edenic covenant, and "new" unconditional covenant.
Last edited by Notrash; 25th August 2009 at 08:34 PM.
Harrison
Passover that year would have been celebrated on March 27 according to the Hebrew calendar.
The Gregorian calendar for Israel for the year 31 A.D. shows March 27 to be a Tuesday. Passover has to be from 6 PM Friday to 6 PM Saturday which was March 23, 6 PM to March 24, 6 PM.
I view the different dates as Nebuzaradan coming to Jerusalem the 7th day, setting the temple on fire the 9th day and the temple completely burned on the 10th day.
According to the NIV Study Bible and The Bible Knowledge Commentary these dates are August 14, 16 and 17 586 B.C.
Using the August 14 date for my calculations:
40 years x 360 days = 14,400
14,400 days divided by 365.4 = 39.40years
.40 x 365.4 = 146 days
146 days divided by 30.45 = 4.8 months
.80 x 30.45 = 24 days
Duration of the disciples generation according to our calendar was about 39 years, 4 months and 24 days.
August 14, 70 AD minus 39 years = August 14, 31 AD
August 14, 31 AD minus 4 months = April 14, 31 AD
April 14, 31 AD minus 24 days = March 21, 31 AD for the Olivet Discourse.
March 21 was three days before the Passover of the 24rd (Mt 26:2).
Last edited by kotel; 24th August 2009 at 10:22 AM.
Harrison
Passover that year would have been celebrated on March 27 according to the Hebrew calendar.
All this is really too complicated for my pea size brain.
The following web site has Nisan 14 of 31 AD occurring from the evenings of March 25 to the evening of Tuesday March 26. 31 is not the year of His crucifixion, but if it had been he would of died on the 26 of March, only a day difference numerically from what you obtained.
Scroll down a little past half way in the “streaming document box’ to the year 31 AD.
For the destruction of Solomon’s Temple. 2 Kings 25:8 has the 7th day of the fifth month of Av and Jer. 52:12 has the 10th day of the fifth month of Av. and Jewish tradition has the 9th day of Av for its destruction.
According to the NIV Study Bible and The Bible Knowledge Commentary these dates are August 14, 17 and the 16th (traditional) 586 B.C.
Using the August 17 date for my calculations:
40 years x 360 days = 14,400
14,400 days divided by 365.4 = 39.40years
.40 x 365.4 = 146 days
146 days divided by 30.45 = 4.8 months
.80 x 30.45 = 24 days
Duration of the disciples generation according to our calendar was about 39 years, 4 months and 24 days.
August 17, 70 AD minus 39 years = August 17, 31 AD
August 17, 31 AD minus 4 months = April 17, 31 AD
April 17, 31 AD minus 24 days = March 24, 31 AD,
as the Olivet Discourse, two days before Nisan 14 on the 26th of March (Mt 26:2). If this conclusion is accurate, the 10th day of the fifth month of Av in Jer 52:12 should be used for the conclusion of the 40 year generation.
Help me understand the verse that says This generation will not pass away before Jesus returns. How does the Greek roughly translate to our modern language as I have always struggled with this.
I know we are not to know the day or the hour, but notice we could know the season, the generation, year or even month then. Maybe
I have understood it as a reference to the Jews (this generation). There are some things that Jesus said that have led me to believe that.
__________________ God has a great plan for all of us. - Jeremiah 29:11, John 10:10, 3 John 1:2. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Mt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
First the word "this" was not intended to mean "the" generation which he was speaking rather to "A" generation which shall see all these things. It is surprising but some to believe this interpretation.
Mark
It is surprising, but so many believe any other interpretation:
Mat 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here. Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; this generation,and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here. (there in that genea, not 2500 yrs later)Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mar 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Luk 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like? Luk 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. Luk 11:31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here. Luk 11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here. Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;Luk 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.(Which Genea was he talking of here? 2000 yrs later?) Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
__________________ One ironic tragedy of futurism/dispensationalism is that it's rabbi's/teachers take a prophecy about the Messiah's confirmation and establishment of The Everlasting covenant of Mercy, Love and Life and twist it to impose an interpretation of a political leader in a figurative red suit with horns who makes, then breaks a treaty. In doing so, they internally side with the spirit which denies, minimizes Christ's having come in the flesh and the centrality of the Everlasting covenant of Mercy .. aka Edenic covenant, and "new" unconditional covenant.
Last edited by Notrash; 24th August 2009 at 03:54 PM.
I agree with Imana, “this generation” is meant for the Jews, Judah and Israel. The context of Mt 24, Mk 13 and Lk 21 is 100% Jewish, the Gentile church is never mentioned in these chapters.
A seven year covenant was not confirmed by Syria and Muslim nations in the first century.
The abomination of the Antichrist proclaiming to be God in the temple was not fulfilled in the first century.
Cessation of Sacrifices and offerings at mid point of the 7 years was not fulfilled.
The distress of the “great tribulation” (KJB) “unequaled from the beginning of the world until now - and never to be equaled again” was not fulfilled in the first century. The destruction and death in 70 AD was probably comparable to Jerusalem’s destruction in 586 BC by the Babylonians but still unequaled compared to the future great tribulation.
Prophets performing “great signs and miracles” was not fulfilled in the 1st century.
The darkening of the sun and moon and stars falling from the sky was not fulfilled.
The coming of the Son of Man was not fulfilled.
The gathering of the Jewish elect to the promised land was not fulfilled.
Judgment of the Gentile nations was not fulfilled (Mt 25:31-46).
The great tribulation as revealed in Rev 6-20 has not been fulfilled.
There needs to be another generation to see what has not been fulfilled.
The things in Mt 24 and other chapters must be fulfilled when the Jews occupy Jerusalem and there is a nation of Israel and they are not scattered among the nations as they were before Israel became a nation in 1948. With Israel reestablished the present generation of Jews can experience first hand what has been prophesied.
I agree with Imana, “this generation” is meant for the Jews, Judah and Israel. The context of Mt 24, Mk 13 and Lk 21 is 100% Jewish, the Gentile church is never mentioned in these chapters.
A seven year covenant was not confirmed by Syria and Muslim nations in the first century.
The abomination of the Antichrist proclaiming to be God in the temple was not fulfilled in the first century.
Cessation of Sacrifices and offerings at mid point of the 7 years was not fulfilled.
The distress of the “great tribulation” (KJB) “unequaled from the beginning of the world until now - and never to be equaled again” was not fulfilled in the first century. The destruction and death in 70 AD was probably comparable to Jerusalem’s destruction in 586 BC by the Babylonians but still unequaled compared to the future great tribulation.
Prophets performing “great signs and miracles” was not fulfilled in the 1st century.
The darkening of the sun and moon and stars falling from the sky was not fulfilled.
The coming of the Son of Man was not fulfilled.
The gathering of the Jewish elect to the promised land was not fulfilled.
Judgment of the Gentile nations was not fulfilled (Mt 25:31-46).
The great tribulation as revealed in Rev 6-20 has not been fulfilled.
Yes, all these things had their fulfillment in the first century. Rather than affirm that 'this generation' must mean a future generation due to your misunderstanding of how things were to be fulfilled perhaps it would be acceptable to acknowledge to the Spirit that you understand that Christ said 'all these things" were to be fullfilled in the next 40 yrs after he spoke the words and then ask the Holy Spirit (with complete dependance on Him an open and seeking heart) to show you how all those things were fulfilled. Leave it lay at the Holy Spirits feet and walk away from it. Your inquisitive mind will draw you back to it and information and research will fall in your lap when HE is ready for you to know it.
If the words of Christ were to mean the Jewish nation or race; Jesus would have used the word gennema, ethnos or genos.
The use of Gennema is listed below. Ethnos usually is translated as kindred and/or race and Genos is often translated 'nation'.
The word tranlated generation in Matt 24:3 is Genea which means those people living in a common lifespan of 30-33 yrs (usually) or 40 yrs as was the case of the instilation of the old covenant and then also of the new covenant generation. When the pronoun houtos (this) is added to the word generation, there can be little question that Jesus words were to be taken as that 40 yr generation of those people who were hearing the words.
Gennema Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Mat 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Mar 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
__________________ One ironic tragedy of futurism/dispensationalism is that it's rabbi's/teachers take a prophecy about the Messiah's confirmation and establishment of The Everlasting covenant of Mercy, Love and Life and twist it to impose an interpretation of a political leader in a figurative red suit with horns who makes, then breaks a treaty. In doing so, they internally side with the spirit which denies, minimizes Christ's having come in the flesh and the centrality of the Everlasting covenant of Mercy .. aka Edenic covenant, and "new" unconditional covenant.
...Rather than affirm that 'this generation' must mean a future generation due to your misunderstanding of how things were to be fulfilled perhaps it would be acceptable to acknowledge to the Spirit that you understand that Christ said 'all these things" were to be fullfilled in the next 40 yrs after he spoke the words and then ask the Holy Spirit (with complete dependance on Him an open and seeking heart) to show you how all those things were fulfilled. Leave it lay at the Holy Spirits feet and walk away from it. Your inquisitive mind will draw you back to it and information and research will fall in your lap when HE is ready for you to know it...
I can't believe that I am reading this! Frankly, I am appalled that anyone here would have the chutzpah to say something like this. This may even border on blasphemy.
When the pronoun houtos (this) is added to the word generation, there can be little question that Jesus words were to be taken as that 40 yr generation of those people who were hearing the words.
Not necessarily so. The Greek demonstrative pronoun houtos (this) can easily refer to another generation from the one then present. It indeed can easily refer to the generation seeing "all these things". Kotel is right; many of the things in the Olivet Discourse did not happen in the first century. Any attempt to identify these with historical events, real or fictitious, is a grasping at straws.
I can't believe that I am reading this! Frankly, I am appalled that anyone here would have the chutzpah to say something like this. This may even border on blasphemy.
Interesting as to what they accused Jesus of isn't it?? It stands as written. "This generation" was used in a conversation Jesus had with his some of his disciples (and his extended disciples) to answer their questions about when these things; especially the destruction of the temple and signs leading up to it's destruction would happen. And all those things happened to that generation within the next 40 yrs.
The blood of the prophets of the old covenant was demanded of that generation of Jeshurun (the last generation of old covenant Israel from Duet 32) as described in Matt 23:36 and that section just before Matt 24. It was through he Mind of the leaders of Jeshurns enemies (Duet 32:42) i.e. the Romans, that the blood of the prophets was avenged in that generation, and likewise all those things occured in that generation. Sorry for you if you miss (for now) understanding their fulfillments and the spiritual implications and impact of this.
You again have not made the acknowledgement that they were asking about the end of the "AGE" (and political/religious old covenant world as they knew it) and not the physical end of the 'world".
Again, He can read Clarkes explaination showing most of the fulfillments of the things listed in the Olivet. But the important question centers around "this generation". The famines, false prophets, earthquakes, wars, rumors of wars, appearance in the clouds, and other phenomona are all listed.
Kotel is right; many of the things in the Olivet Discourse did not happen in the first century. Any attempt to identify these with historical events, real or fictitious, is a grasping at straws.
Obviously, we all get the perspective that your opinion and belief is that these things did not happen in that generation.
Obviously to me, the literary gymnastics and grasping at straws is found in any attempt to imply that Christ did not mean the generation to whom he was speaking when he said "this generation". The wording is so very openly blunt that to escape this meaning one must substitute words such as "that generation" or Gennema, ethnos, Genos for what is written and/or recorded.
All I am asking Kotel (and any others) to do is to honestly take the question before the Teacher and leave it with Him. Rather, that stand in authority over the interpretation of the conversation Christ had with his disciples, ask the Holy Spirit for it's meanings and to show him the possible first century fulfillments and the meanings of the end of the old covenant.
Is it so difficult to really believe that Jesus predicted and foretold the occurances that would happen to that generation? Is it so difficult to believe and accept the reality of the Creator/redeemer who called life and the creation GOOD and his visitation and working on Earth?
Is is so terrible to understand and recieve that the old covenant of law has been abolished and already ruled and judged ineffective? Perhaps the difficulty is that if the old covenant age was abolished, then it would mean that we cannot be self-justified by or through 'law', or religion... etc.
The jews sought the kingdom by law, by knowledge, by works, by genetics, by religion and any other way but by recieving by faith. The righteousness that is by faith recieves that Christ came in flesh and was able to foretell the events to those very same individuals who would benefit by seeing their fulfillment. Understanding the fulfillment of the Olivet and the ending of the old covenant is a faith building exercise, not one of disbelief or word twisting.
Again, read the other uses of the phrase "this generation" as opposed to any choice of words Christ would have used if he would have wanted to imply "That future generation". Which of any of these can imply a future generation?....
Mat 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here. Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; this generation,and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here. (there in that genea, not 2500 yrs later)Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mar 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Luk 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like? Luk 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. Luk 11:31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here. Luk 11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here. Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;Luk 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.(Which Genea was he talking of here? 2000 yrs later?) Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
__________________ One ironic tragedy of futurism/dispensationalism is that it's rabbi's/teachers take a prophecy about the Messiah's confirmation and establishment of The Everlasting covenant of Mercy, Love and Life and twist it to impose an interpretation of a political leader in a figurative red suit with horns who makes, then breaks a treaty. In doing so, they internally side with the spirit which denies, minimizes Christ's having come in the flesh and the centrality of the Everlasting covenant of Mercy .. aka Edenic covenant, and "new" unconditional covenant.
Last edited by Notrash; 25th August 2009 at 08:50 PM.
Help me understand the verse that says This generation will not pass away before Jesus returns. How does the Greek roughly translate to our modern language as I have always struggled with this.
I know we are not to know the day or the hour, but notice we could know the season, the generation, year or even month then. Maybe
I agree with you, the generation that sees the sign of the end will not pass before all is completed. Once we have entered into the great tribulation, wwe will know we have no more than 3.5 years left before Christ return. I believe that the tribulational saints will know the month of Christ return.
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mark 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Just like a doctor can give a ''due date'' yet they really do not know the day or hour of the babies arrivel, they can tell an aproximate date, so will the tribulational saints know the aproximate time of Christ's return.
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