We know that one of the ten commandments says that we are not to make an idol or have no other gods before God. To me, it seems that whenever someone believes something which is contrary to the Word of God that they are making a god to fit what they want to believe or desire. The question which comes to mind is are TEs making a god in their image?
Luke 10:27 (Love God Above All, And Your Neighbor as yourself) And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 7:12 (Do unto others)
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 5:43-48 (Pray for those that persecute you)
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Luke 6:27-29 (Love your enemies.)
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
Originally Posted by Saint Augustine
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If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books.
Isaiah 8:12-13 (NIV) "Do not call conspiracy everything that these people call conspiracy; do not fear what they fear, and do not dread it. The Lord Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread."
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I know that according to the rules of the subforum, I am not allowed to debate in here. Therefore, I would appreciate it if everything I say in the next post is taken as a mere statement in a neutral tone, not something meant to stir up controversy. Since neither vocal tone nor body language can be conveyed over the internet, I want to make sure this gets taken the correct way. Thank you, and God Bless
We know that one of the ten commandments says that we are not to make an idol or have no other gods before God. To me, it seems that whenever someone believes something which is contrary to the Word of God that they are making a god to fit what they want to believe or desire. The question which comes to mind is are TEs making a god in their image?
For me personally, I do not believe I am changing God in any way by accepting biological evolution. I still:
Believe in God the Father, maker of Heaven and Earth, or all that is seen and unseen,
In Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father. Through Him all things were made.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life,
who proceeds from the Father (and the Son, tho I know not everyone agrees with this particular clause *cough cough* philoquoque *cough cough*)
With the Father and the Son He is worshipped and glorified, He has spoke through the prophets.
Yes, I know I left some parts out, but I didn't think my purpose would be served by repeating the entire Creed here.
I still believe Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, died on a Cross for the sins of all humanity, and that all who come to Him may gain eternal life.
None of that has changed.
As for evolution being against the Word of God, I would say that I do not actively disbelieve the Word of God, I merely do not believe it means the same as what YECs believe. I do not believe that Genesis must be literal. I do not believe that the Bible must be wrong for it to have occurred. I do believe that nowhere in the Bible is it said that Genesis must be taken literally to achieve salvation. I do believe that believing such things happened in no way, shape, or form diminishes the power, majesty, or grace of Almighty God.
To cap it up... I do not believe that the only way to see God is 'The God of the Bible professing a 6000 year old earth'. I believe the only way to see God is "The Truine God of the Father, the Son named Jesus who died on the cross for the sins of humanity, and the Holy Spirit'.
That is what I believe. I do not think that to believe as I do either makes a new God in my own image, nor do I believe it fundamentally changes my view of God so that He is not the God you all see.
I will step off my soap box before I ramble too much more, as I only mean to make a statement about the way I personally see God, not spark at debate, as I have no wish to violate the subforum rules.
Thank you for tolerating my post, and I hope you all see it in the manner of fellowship while reading that I tried to have while writing it.
God bless.
Metherion
__________________ I can't go back to yesterday - because I was a different person then.
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
One of the secrets of life is that all that is really worth the doing is what we do for others.
I know that according to the rules of the subforum, I am not allowed to debate in here.
...snip....
If I'm reading the rules correctly, that is no longer in effect, though you may wish to verify it first with an Adman / Mod.
But that Rule is no longer showing in this sub forum section. http://www.christianforums.com/f425/
The only rule I'm seeing is that's it's a Christian Only forum.
__________________
Spoiler for Some Good Rules for Christians:
Luke 10:27 (Love God Above All, And Your Neighbor as yourself) And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 7:12 (Do unto others)
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 5:43-48 (Pray for those that persecute you)
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Luke 6:27-29 (Love your enemies.)
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
Originally Posted by Saint Augustine
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If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books.
Isaiah 8:12-13 (NIV) "Do not call conspiracy everything that these people call conspiracy; do not fear what they fear, and do not dread it. The Lord Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
As for evolution being against the Word of God, I would say that I do not actively disbelieve the Word of God, I merely do not believe it means the same as what YECs believe. I do not believe that Genesis must be literal. I do not believe that the Bible must be wrong for it to have occurred. I do believe that nowhere in the Bible is it said that Genesis must be taken literally to achieve salvation. I do believe that believing such things happened in no way, shape, or form diminishes the power, majesty, or grace of Almighty God.
Then how do you see
"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"
(John 5:45-47)
By the way, I also believe the earth is more than 6000 years old. That is called the gap theory, but I do not like the name, because I do not believe this because the exact wording of Genesis 1 allows it (which it does) but that the exact wording of Isaiah 45 requires it.
__________________ Biblewriter is the handle of James C. Morris. I call myself Biblewriter because I write about the Bible.
Last edited by Biblewriter; 18th July 2009 at 07:23 PM.
"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"
(John 5:45-47)
By the way, I also believe the earth is more than 6000 years old. That is called the gap theory, but I do not like the name, because I do not believe this because the exact wording of Genesis 1 allows it (which it does) but that the exact wording of Isaiah 45 requires it.
First, I would like to ask a question. What part of Isaiah 45 do you think requires it? That intrigues me. Not attempting to challenge, I would just like clarification.
As to how I would answer the quote, I do believe Moses' writings. I simply get something different out of them than YECs or OECs or gap theorists ( I know you said you dislike the term but I do not know a better one to use, i apologize), etc. I still get truth from them. I still believe them. I still believe Christ's words. I just get a different message out of them.
If I'm reading the rules correctly, that is no longer in effect, though you may wish to verify it first with an Adman / Mod.
But that Rule is no longer showing in this sub forum section. http://www.christianforums.com/f425/
The only rule I'm seeing is that's it's a Christian Only forum.
I was unaware of such a change. Still doesn't mean I want to promote a debate here tho :-p
Metherion
__________________ I can't go back to yesterday - because I was a different person then.
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
One of the secrets of life is that all that is really worth the doing is what we do for others.
First, I would like to ask a question. What part of Isaiah 45 do you think requires it? That intrigues me. Not attempting to challenge, I would just like clarification.
As to how I would answer the quote, I do believe Moses' writings. I simply get something different out of them than YECs or OECs or gap theorists ( I know you said you dislike the term but I do not know a better one to use, i apologize), etc. I still get truth from them. I still believe them. I still believe Christ's words. I just get a different message out of them...
Metherion
"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else."(Isaiah 45:18) The Hebrew word translated in vain here is tohu (word number 8414 in Strong's Hebrew Dictionary.) This is not only the same word, but the same form of the same word as the Hebrew word translated without form in Genesis 1:2. Again, the Hrbrew word translated without form in Genesis 1:2 is also tohu (word number 8414 in String's Hebrew Dictionary.)
Also, few realize how strong the argument is from Genesis 1:2 alone. The Hebrew word translated was in Genesis 1:2 is hayah (word number 1961 in Strong's Hebrew Dictionary.) In the King James Version,this Hebrew word is translated more than thirty-five different ways, but in the creation account the King James translators rendered this word as “became” or “become” three different times. This first of these is Genesis 2:7"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” The second is Genesis 2:10"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.” And the third is Genesis 3:22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil...” From this we see that the word translated “was” in the clause “the earth was without form, and void,” could legitimately be translated “became,” rather than “was.” if this is what God was saying, the true meaning of Genesis 1:1-2 is that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth became without form, and void.” If this is what God meant by these words, He was indicating that the earth itself is older that the six thousand year age of the present creation.
This conclusion is very strongly reinforced by a careful consideration of Isaiah 45:18.
__________________ Biblewriter is the handle of James C. Morris. I call myself Biblewriter because I write about the Bible.
"Scripture simply says that the moon, the sun, and the stars were placed in the firmament of the heaven, below and above which heaven are the waters... It is likely that the stars are fastened to the firmament like globes of fire, to shed light at night... We Christians must be different from the philosophers in the way we think about the causes of things. And if some are beyond our comprehension like those before us concerning the waters above the heavens, we must believe them rather than wickedly deny them or presumptuously interpret them in conformity with our understanding."
__________________ "There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well." -- creation scientist Dr. Todd Wood
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