Can You Loose Your Salvation?

Title says it all, but what do Methodist believe? New Testament references please.

I think many could come up with some really good scriptures supporting the UM's position of not OSAS (once saved always saved). One that immediately comes to my mind is Matthew 7:21-23 (my emphasis added):

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

cristianna,

Thank you for the reply and I understand the scripture you quoted, or at least I think I do. Even Satin and his angels (demons or whatever you want to call them) believe in God and Jesus.

But my question is more directed to once you accept Jesus as your savior, and you do your best to follow his teachings can you loose your salvation? Man is not perfect no matter how hard he tries, he will commit sin of some order.

The book of John seems pretty clear to me and contradicts some churches beliefs.

As you know I am a member of another faith who strongly believes you can loose your salvation, and some other beliefs I do not interpret the same as they believe.

I guess what I am trying to say is I get the impression UMC is fairly open minded and willing to discuss issues of faith which appeals to me, whereas the denomination I am a member now is more closed minded. What really dissapoints me is they tend to dwell on End Times, negativity, and tithe to the church too much. Unhealthy IMO

Even Satin and his worshipers believe in God and Christ but they reject his teachings.

I accept Christ and his teachings, and do my best, but I am a Man and fail sometimes. I have done a 180 since accepting Christ, but I am human and prone to errors in judgment.

Book of John is very clear to me like:

• John 3:15-18
• John 6:37
• John 10:28-30
• John 14:6

FWIW I am not a Baptist.

I guess what I am trying to say is I am not perfect and will deviate from the righteous path out of error. But when I do most of the times my heart tells me I did wrong and I will ask forgiveness in prayer. The church I belong too now does not seem to accept that. Does UMC accept human flaws and errors in judgment after being saved ?

Dereck, I'm not exactly comfy cozy answering, with precision, as to how or if one can lose salvation. I trust in God to deal appropriately and justly with all, including myself.

What I will say is I believe God's forgiveness is more perfect than ours. I feel humans only grasp and hand out a fraction of the ability God does. I fully believe scripture to be truth, and when God says He will forgive us when we ask, I believe He does. There may still be repercussions and discipline as a result, but still forgiveness.

I don't exactly understand your current church's position on self-examination and repenting. I personally find it odd. Moreso because scripture tells us examine our ways, to repent when we find we are in error or when we feel the nudging of the Spirit showing us our errors.

I also reflect on others in the bible, such as David, whom while they were passionate about worshipping and serving God, they certainly were not perfect, sinless humans and were frequently found wailing, weeping and gnashing asking God for forgiveness.

Yes you are right. In the five different UMC's we've attended it has always been my experience that faith, beliefs and experiences have always been openly discussed, and everyone's opinions and thoughts were equally listened to no matter how contrasting they were.

I find it odd too and it sends red flags up. It is not just this one church, it is in the 16 fundamental beliefs they have. I will not name the denomination as I am not here to bash anyone.

Now that was a good answer and the one I am looking for. I have read the UMC articles of religion and can see they do believe you can loose your salvation, it is not specified how, but at least from what I can gather the UMC is open to discuss and will tolerate different interpretations and opinions.

I don't think you can lose your salvation. That sounds so accidental - like you forgot where you put it. If we were condemned everytime we stumbled nobody would be saved. When you feel you have done wrong you can ask for forgiveness and help to not do that again.

I do however feel that you can throw your salvation away. You can make an obvious choice to reject God and Jesus and go your own way or follow another "god" and give up your claim to salvation thru Christ.

__________________
"If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other." Galations 5:15


"...a vice does not lose its nature, though it becomes ever so fashionable" -John Wesley

"To study too much in retreat can become an inexcusable indulgence. It behooves us to share what we have learned, to practice in administering to others what we have gathered from our experience with books" -the Brother Superior of the Glauxian Brothers of the Northern Kingdoms

Best answer I have heard so far.

I agree CelticFlower's point is most acceptable because in the end it's really our choice to throw it away or not. No matter if we are backsliding, utterly walking away intentionally, etc., it's still our choice to not move forward continuing to walk with God.

References? You want scriptural references?

Normally I would be happy to give them, but today I'm simply to rushed to do the research. So, here's a short answer (for me anyway) to your question, and I'll try to follow-up later with the supportive scriptures.

Do UMs believe that one can lose his/her salvation?

Yes. And No.


Yes. People have free will. To accept Christ. To reject Christ. And to change their mind. God, though sovereign over us all and never willing for anyone to live outside of his good will for us nevertheless allowed Adam and Eve the opportunity to chose rather than be forced to live in accordance with his will for them. They didn't. If God wasn't going to exercise his sovereignty then, why would we expect God who is immutable in character to have changed the way he allows us to choose to participate in his righteousness to be different in that aspect of how he relates to us now. He still lets people choose to follow him. And that freedom to choose to follow must, in order to be free, include the freedom to choose not to follow. This is true both before and after one accepts Christ in one's life.

And No. One who accepts Christ's in one's life also accepts the guidance of the Holy Spirit. (Christ and the Holy Spirit as one and the same in the Godhead, just as Jesus said I and the Father are one, cannot be seperated from each other.) And the Holy Spirit works to always preserve us. And He does not fail in his efforts. He will never let go of those who turn toward him for salvation.

Thus the only way for one to lose one's salvation after coming to Christ would be outright rebellion, assertion of one's self as sovereign in your own life instead of God, and rejection of that which God has already secured for you so as to actually dismiss God's gracious gift which remains available in your life simply for the receiving.