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"I dare not longer contradict the decrees of him [The Roman Pontiff] who keeps the doors of the Kingdom of Heaven, lest he should refuse me admission."
-- King Oswy, at the Synod of Whitby in A.D. 664, declaring himself in favor of the arguments of Bishop Wilfrid (who himself had just quoted Saint Peter) thereby aligning England with the Holy Apostolic See of Rome.
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"[The Holy Apostolic See of Rome] from God the Incarnate Word Himself, as well as all the Holy Councils, according to the sacred canons and definitions, has received and possesses supreme power in all things and for all things, over all the Holy churches of God throughout the world, as well as power and authority of binding and loosing. For with this Church, the Word, who commands the powers of Heaven, binds and looses in Heaven."
-St. Maximus the Confessor,(PG xci, 144)
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-Sub Tuum Praesidium-
We fly to thy patronage,O holy Mother of God;despise not our petitions in our necessities, but from all dangers deliver us always, O glorious and blessed Virgin. Amen. [Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary, circa 250 A.D.]
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We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee; because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
-[Roman Breviary]
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Teach me to do Thy will, because Thou art my God.
[Psalm 142:10]
Last edited by Matthaeus; 29th July 2009 at 02:10 PM.
Reason: To clarify my post.
Another note: what's this talk of 500yr. old "faith language" it's the Catholic Faith? Try picking up a Baltimore Catechism, it teaches the same stuff, only tailored towards children, with Pictures----but it's good for adults too, I use it. Sorry, I didn't want to sound condescending. It's quite helpful. Plus, it explains why we do things, and the Catholic belief on things, and why we do the Sacraments, what they significate, etc. It's not terribly difficult.
I hope I don't sound too crass.
Forgive me.
-Christ's peace be upon thee,
Matthaeus
__________________
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"I dare not longer contradict the decrees of him [The Roman Pontiff] who keeps the doors of the Kingdom of Heaven, lest he should refuse me admission."
-- King Oswy, at the Synod of Whitby in A.D. 664, declaring himself in favor of the arguments of Bishop Wilfrid (who himself had just quoted Saint Peter) thereby aligning England with the Holy Apostolic See of Rome.
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"[The Holy Apostolic See of Rome] from God the Incarnate Word Himself, as well as all the Holy Councils, according to the sacred canons and definitions, has received and possesses supreme power in all things and for all things, over all the Holy churches of God throughout the world, as well as power and authority of binding and loosing. For with this Church, the Word, who commands the powers of Heaven, binds and looses in Heaven."
-St. Maximus the Confessor,(PG xci, 144)
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-Sub Tuum Praesidium-
We fly to thy patronage,O holy Mother of God;despise not our petitions in our necessities, but from all dangers deliver us always, O glorious and blessed Virgin. Amen. [Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary, circa 250 A.D.]
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We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee; because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
-[Roman Breviary]
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Teach me to do Thy will, because Thou art my God.
[Psalm 142:10]
Last edited by Matthaeus; 30th July 2009 at 02:52 AM.
It clarifies the faith; would we not want the faithful to abjure and reject heresy? For heresy is damnable and effectuates the death of the sin in mortal sin. That's why the Holy Catholic Church has so strongly spoken against it. Additionally, until 1992, it was the Universal Catechism of the Holy Catholic Church, and still today it remains a universal catechism of the Holy Catholic Church; its concepts, principles and wording remain valid for today; contrary to those naysayers who would repeat the unwise axiom of the Modernists, who insist that the Roman Catechism is somehow antiquated and that we need to "grow up" in the faith, thinking that is is somehow childish or only valid or efficacious for the "rudimentary" and simple-minded folk of yesteryear......such sentiment is simply twaddle, ignorant, and untrue.
With the advent of the heresies of Modernism, Post-Modernism, and the Indifferentism that seem to plague the Holy Mother Church, it would seem those emboldened by the desire for Christian unity [those hyper-ecumenists] would put forward a false "unity" or "irenicism" as if to say that the Protestants sects were no longer heretical or that their doctrine was no longer potentially damning to one's soul: contrary to what the Church has believed to the sad state that Luther, Calvin, Zwingle, and Cranmer were in: leading so many souls astray from the fold of the ark of Salvation that is the Holy Catholic Church.
Juxtaposed to this "Irenicism," would be a true desire for "Christian Unity" unlike the false Ecumenicism peddled sadly by many errant Clerics within the Church. This true Ecumenism then, is conversion to one Holy Catholic faith, not rather some imaginary "lost unity" with Prots, that "unity" of the Protestants who somehow imagine that the Church of God has somehow ever been divided, when in fact it is the forefathers and founders of their sects who departed the One church of God, which is the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church of Christ's, a Church, which never was anything but One, as Christ is one, and as she is the Body of Christ.
Hence, as she has never been "divided" them, there is something acutely and particularly dangerous with ambiguous passages within the "UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO" document contained amongst the various documents in the Second Vatican Council; this document gives one an almost certain [however, misguided or false] impression and notion that the Holy Catholic Church, which never lost her unity nor has ever been divided, is currently "divided" amongst Christiandom, as if the sundry Protestant sectaries where "elements" parts of the Holy Catholic Church [which they are not]."
It would then be in fact that they who are members are of those Protestant conventicles, whose members or forefathers stem from the initial schism of the Protestant rebels in their Rebellion from the Catholic Church some five centuries ago; or have separated themselves from the Catholic Church today [if they were members of her today by abjuring the Holy Catholic Church, seeking instead a particular Protestant sect that would then befit mostly with their own particular version of how "The Church" should be or "is;"] are not a part of the Holy Catholic Church having abjured her by either initial schism or by abandoning her by embracing Erroneous or heretical doctrine(s).
Leaving then the unity of the Catholic Church of God and here true and undefiled and pure doctrine and fullness of faith, for whatever sect they chose in her place, as if she were not the One True Church of God [which the Holy Catholic Church is most certainly the one true Church of Holy Saviour Jesus Christ], and the sect they joined was or apart of that "Invisible" Church of God that Protestants claim that "all true believers" belong to, contrariwise to the Catholic belief on the nature of the Church. They would then claim under the pretext of "Christian Unity" to "restore" that "lost unity"----a true unity which sadly to not realizing it, has never been lost, for such unity always was and is in the Holy Catholic Church of Christ's----their having abandoned such unity for the sake of their Reformed sects and their "reformation of Theology" in their Protestant "Reformation."
Now, with such a false concept or foundation in mind, many, forgetting that true unity has never been lost in the Holy Catholic Church, would be wont to [most regrettably, erroneously, and misguidedly] to adopt the Protestant notions of this "Lost Unity"---this "lost Christian Unity;" such Irenicism finds its way into the Pseudo-Ecumenism of today, causing a fundamental shift away from the fact that "true unity" WHICH remains only within Christ's Holy Catholic Church, as well as her being the "One ark of Salvation" as she is the only Church and vessel of salvation, wherewith one might attain salvation with, rather to a mistaken belief that the Holy Catholic Church is a "sect" or "denomination" like any of the sundry Protestant sects and should then adopt this Pseudo-Ecumenism. With this notion in mind many bishops, priests, and Cardinals adopt this false movement for Irenicism with not only the Protestant Sects, but also with the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches, glossing over the fundamentals differences in with such true doctrines as transubstantiation, Papal Authority and Infallibility, the 7 sacraments conveying grace, Sacred Scripture and Divine Tradition held together, as well as many others. Instead rather a false unity, built on the lost common denominator is put forward, to focus as were on so-called "core-beliefs" neglecting that fact that the whole Catholic Faith, pure and undefiled is "core" and necessary, and is as such our "Core-beliefs;" with which we cannot nor must not compromise.
__________________
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"I dare not longer contradict the decrees of him [The Roman Pontiff] who keeps the doors of the Kingdom of Heaven, lest he should refuse me admission."
-- King Oswy, at the Synod of Whitby in A.D. 664, declaring himself in favor of the arguments of Bishop Wilfrid (who himself had just quoted Saint Peter) thereby aligning England with the Holy Apostolic See of Rome.
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"[The Holy Apostolic See of Rome] from God the Incarnate Word Himself, as well as all the Holy Councils, according to the sacred canons and definitions, has received and possesses supreme power in all things and for all things, over all the Holy churches of God throughout the world, as well as power and authority of binding and loosing. For with this Church, the Word, who commands the powers of Heaven, binds and looses in Heaven."
-St. Maximus the Confessor,(PG xci, 144)
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-Sub Tuum Praesidium-
We fly to thy patronage,O holy Mother of God;despise not our petitions in our necessities, but from all dangers deliver us always, O glorious and blessed Virgin. Amen. [Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary, circa 250 A.D.]
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We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee; because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
-[Roman Breviary]
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Teach me to do Thy will, because Thou art my God.
[Psalm 142:10]
Whoa Matthaeus, you totally went over my head more than once there. But I think I understand what you're saying. But why should we reject the Catechism, or the writtings of the second Vatican council, considering they are both coming from a legitimate council within the Catholic Church?
As for ecumenism, I was talking with a Church of Christ pastor on the subject of original sin and that led to my asking the original question on this thread. After reading the Roman Catechism, I got the wrong idea, but found a good answer in the CCC. Maggie then helped me to reconcile the two; thanks again Maggie! The point of this is that I was able to correct a missunderstanding that the pastor had about how the Catholic Church sees Original Sin and we found that we (the pastor and I) were not so separated on this dogma as he had orginally thought. That's true ecumenism, in my opinion. Obviously, the Church will never become something she is not, but we can work with what we have now.
With that in mind, the Church doesn't compromise with heresy. It would seem however many today for the sake of "ecumenism" would shunt or divest themselves of the duty to evangelize not just Protestants or the Orthodox, but also, unbelievers and heathens in general; neglect the Christ given command that the Holy Gospel be preached unto the ends of the Earth in every nation.
Given my experience with the Holy Mother Church, compromise with Protestants sects, whose goal would not only include unity with the other Prot. denom.s but with the Holy Catholic Church, if only she'd give up her allegded "unbiblical" doctrines and accept the Prot. Reformation, and many Catholics today would act as if there are virtually no differences with Prots, pushing for "unity" with them. I'm sorry, but sects who only desire unity at, would be the abjuration of the Holy Catholic Faith, is not and shouldn't happen.
I should like to hope that in the times to come, that Holy Ghost shall move in the Church to dispel this irencism and work upon the conversion of Prots, Schismatical Orthodox, Heathenry, and the Unbelievers: fulfilling and carrying out Christ's Command until the End of Days.
Lord have mercy.
__________________
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"I dare not longer contradict the decrees of him [The Roman Pontiff] who keeps the doors of the Kingdom of Heaven, lest he should refuse me admission."
-- King Oswy, at the Synod of Whitby in A.D. 664, declaring himself in favor of the arguments of Bishop Wilfrid (who himself had just quoted Saint Peter) thereby aligning England with the Holy Apostolic See of Rome.
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"[The Holy Apostolic See of Rome] from God the Incarnate Word Himself, as well as all the Holy Councils, according to the sacred canons and definitions, has received and possesses supreme power in all things and for all things, over all the Holy churches of God throughout the world, as well as power and authority of binding and loosing. For with this Church, the Word, who commands the powers of Heaven, binds and looses in Heaven."
-St. Maximus the Confessor,(PG xci, 144)
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-Sub Tuum Praesidium-
We fly to thy patronage,O holy Mother of God;despise not our petitions in our necessities, but from all dangers deliver us always, O glorious and blessed Virgin. Amen. [Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary, circa 250 A.D.]
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We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee; because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
-[Roman Breviary]
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Teach me to do Thy will, because Thou art my God.
[Psalm 142:10]
Last edited by Matthaeus; 30th July 2009 at 03:05 AM.
Forgive me. I was on a rant with a really good post. I just didn't think that I finished it! And I didn't want to delete it. I know it's not entirely particularly pertinent to the thread, but still, I was on a roll, and I tried to finish the rest, but now I didn't remember what I was going to say. I kind of just hob-cobbled together a finishing post [which is post #15].
Eh, oh well.
God bless thee.
Forgive Me.
IN Christ,
Matthaeus
__________________
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"I dare not longer contradict the decrees of him [The Roman Pontiff] who keeps the doors of the Kingdom of Heaven, lest he should refuse me admission."
-- King Oswy, at the Synod of Whitby in A.D. 664, declaring himself in favor of the arguments of Bishop Wilfrid (who himself had just quoted Saint Peter) thereby aligning England with the Holy Apostolic See of Rome.
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"[The Holy Apostolic See of Rome] from God the Incarnate Word Himself, as well as all the Holy Councils, according to the sacred canons and definitions, has received and possesses supreme power in all things and for all things, over all the Holy churches of God throughout the world, as well as power and authority of binding and loosing. For with this Church, the Word, who commands the powers of Heaven, binds and looses in Heaven."
-St. Maximus the Confessor,(PG xci, 144)
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-Sub Tuum Praesidium-
We fly to thy patronage,O holy Mother of God;despise not our petitions in our necessities, but from all dangers deliver us always, O glorious and blessed Virgin. Amen. [Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary, circa 250 A.D.]
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We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee; because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
-[Roman Breviary]
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Teach me to do Thy will, because Thou art my God.
[Psalm 142:10]
I'm not saying we should compromise; that's stupid. That would be totally against the Catholic Church herself. What I'm saying, though, is that we can be more relaxed and gentle in the presentation of it. The Roman Catechism is anything but gentle, and maybe that's a good thing in a way, but in today's society we should be working to guide protestants and orthodox and etc into the Church; the whole fire and brimstone - You're a heretic! - approach just doesn't seem to be very conducive to conversion.
I suppose we should be a bit more gentle; however, I think perhaps, that I'm more "fire and brimstone" b/c of the Lack of it in sermons and such: in reading about it in the saints' sermons and from reading Holy Scripture, Our Holy Saviour's words in the Holy Gospels, and from sermons by traditional Catholic priests on Youtube.
It would seem, back in the 50's and 60's in my grandparents' younger years, they did preach more about hell, sin, and the evils of heresy; as opposed to now, when all one sees is this overtly-friendly attitude the wants to tolerate [to the point of heresy or near-heresy] or compromise with Protestant sects or Orthodox, instead of proclaiming with charity and clarity that the Holy Catholic Faith, is the one true and orthodox faith which we've received from Christ and the Holy Apostles.
At least, it would seem that the "bit more fire & brimstone" approach worked for the saints and holy apostles, this ultra-friendly soft "hyper-ecumenism" doesn't seem to be working, in fact it seems to have effectuated a mass exodus (combined with poor catechesis and the preying on of Catholics by Prots, which they convert them to whatever sect of Protestantism they are).
Maybe I'm wrong, but almost everywhere [even more so in Europe than in the United States], since this "friendly" and "tolerant" attitude has been adopted, a steady decline in proper catechesis for the average Catholic that started in the Late 60's/70's: A steady drop in the practicing numbers of Catholics has occurred [and continues to occur] to the point that only about 17% of the Catholic populace in the United States practice their face anymore; of those 17%, many are poorly or severely under-catechized----or even abjure or refuse to assent to many Catholic doctrine.
I'm just going by what I've known and experienced. Such, it is my mere and humble opinion; the firm orthodoxy and straightforwardness of the Roman Catechism is something I've craved, looking for a Catholic Catechism, that wasn't afraid to proclaim the faith and did so with charity, but absolutely and with clarity. And I found this in the Roman Catechism. It has helped a lot to explain the faith better to me.
It is pure, undefiled, and uncompromising Catholicism [with Charity] that I desire [and many others], but Prots. and non-believers respect the Catholic faith more, when we're straightforward, non-apologetic, and not afraid to be honest about what we believe.
I'm just being honest. I might be mis-perceiving things, but It's my vantage point here.
__________________
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"I dare not longer contradict the decrees of him [The Roman Pontiff] who keeps the doors of the Kingdom of Heaven, lest he should refuse me admission."
-- King Oswy, at the Synod of Whitby in A.D. 664, declaring himself in favor of the arguments of Bishop Wilfrid (who himself had just quoted Saint Peter) thereby aligning England with the Holy Apostolic See of Rome.
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"[The Holy Apostolic See of Rome] from God the Incarnate Word Himself, as well as all the Holy Councils, according to the sacred canons and definitions, has received and possesses supreme power in all things and for all things, over all the Holy churches of God throughout the world, as well as power and authority of binding and loosing. For with this Church, the Word, who commands the powers of Heaven, binds and looses in Heaven."
-St. Maximus the Confessor,(PG xci, 144)
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-Sub Tuum Praesidium-
We fly to thy patronage,O holy Mother of God;despise not our petitions in our necessities, but from all dangers deliver us always, O glorious and blessed Virgin. Amen. [Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary, circa 250 A.D.]
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We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee; because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
-[Roman Breviary]
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Teach me to do Thy will, because Thou art my God.
[Psalm 142:10]
Last edited by Matthaeus; 30th July 2009 at 09:38 PM.
It's priests like Monsignor Moss, who aren't afraid to proclaim and preach the Holy Catholic Faith. I've very very rarely see priests that are more forthright in their sermons about sin, the Devil, and Hell.
I shall pray for more orthodox and traditional Catholic priests like the Good late-Monsignor here, that aren't afraid to proclaim the faith unabashedly or with compromise; but with charity.
__________________
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"I dare not longer contradict the decrees of him [The Roman Pontiff] who keeps the doors of the Kingdom of Heaven, lest he should refuse me admission."
-- King Oswy, at the Synod of Whitby in A.D. 664, declaring himself in favor of the arguments of Bishop Wilfrid (who himself had just quoted Saint Peter) thereby aligning England with the Holy Apostolic See of Rome.
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"[The Holy Apostolic See of Rome] from God the Incarnate Word Himself, as well as all the Holy Councils, according to the sacred canons and definitions, has received and possesses supreme power in all things and for all things, over all the Holy churches of God throughout the world, as well as power and authority of binding and loosing. For with this Church, the Word, who commands the powers of Heaven, binds and looses in Heaven."
-St. Maximus the Confessor,(PG xci, 144)
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-Sub Tuum Praesidium-
We fly to thy patronage,O holy Mother of God;despise not our petitions in our necessities, but from all dangers deliver us always, O glorious and blessed Virgin. Amen. [Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary, circa 250 A.D.]
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We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee; because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
-[Roman Breviary]
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. dir="ltr">
Teach me to do Thy will, because Thou art my God.
[Psalm 142:10]
Last edited by Matthaeus; 30th July 2009 at 09:17 PM.
I agree, he's a good priest. I guess I'm naive, though; I've only ever run into really good and orthodox priests. This Monsignor reminds me of the Monsignor at my church. But I don't think this quite what this thread is meant to discuss. You've given me the reason you think the Roman Catechism is superior, and I've given you my objections; I don't know if much else remains to be discussed.
Sorry, I didn't want to sound condescending. It's quite helpful. Plus, it explains why we do things, and the Catholic belief on things, and why we do the Sacraments, what they significate, etc. It's not terribly difficult. 
.....such sentiment is simply twaddle, ignorant, and untrue.
; 
I just didn't think that I finished it! And I didn't want to delete it. I know it's not entirely particularly pertinent to the thread, but still, I was on a roll, and I tried to finish the rest, but now I didn't remember what I was going to say. I kind of just hob-cobbled together a finishing post [which is post #15]. 
Linear Mode
