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18th July 2009, 04:42 AM
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Reps: 5,570,983,808,792 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by MarkT  You might say they are a kind of dog. But then again it might be more accurate to say wolves and dogs belong to the same kind.
A kind of cat?
"Kind" isn't a valid term in taxonomy. Please be more specific. No. Birds fly. Reptiles crawl on their bellies.
Reptiles also glide and birds like kiwis, penguins and ostriches are flightless, so that's "birds fly. Reptiles crawl on their bellies." out the window.
As for amphibians being modified fish and reptiles being modified amphibians, do some research* on it. Don't just say "I don't think so." or "No." without having the foggiest what you're talking about. Aside from the physical differences? Our spirit. We have intelligence and abilities.
Again, do some research*. Don't just make stuff up. All animals have a measure of intelligence, and all animals have "abilities". "Spirit", lol, evidence? 
Yes, this orangutan is spear fishing.
*REAL research, not creationist propaganda site research.  |
18th July 2009, 04:49 AM
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Reps: 6,155,096,027,645,786 (power: 6,155,096,027,658) | | Originally Posted by Alunyel
Yes, this orangutan is spear fishing.
Would LOVE an actual link (besides the blogspot pic link) that actually verifies the behavior you are describing.
That would rock SO MUCH 
__________________ "And yes, to prove evolution is wrong does not mean creation is right. But, the goal is just that, to prove evolution is wrong. Nothing else."
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18th July 2009, 04:52 AM
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Reps: 5,570,983,808,792 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by MarkT Don't listen to that guy. He misunderstands the whole argument. He makes wild assumptions about changes accumulating over time.
I would argue that no feature would keep changing like the video suggests. The neck, for example, would not keep getting longer. An unusually long neck, in fact, would suggest two creatures are unrelated (not descended from the same ancestor) though they might belong to one kind.
We've been breeding animals for a long time (thousands of years) and we've seen nothing like what's in the video. Animals don't acquire necks longer than what is allowed within the parameters of the kind. A swan, for example, might have a longer neck than a sparrow, but I would think it belongs to a water fowl. We see longer necks in that family. But both swans and sparrows are birds.
It's like a life span. You don't get longer life spans than the limit of the kind. While some species of a kind might be longer lived, all species of its kind would fall within a certain inherent range. It's the same with any feature. There's a range inherent in the kind.
Hypocritical much?
A "SLIGHTLY" longer neck. A SMALL change. You clearly didn't even understand the video titled "Natural Selection MADE EASY. It explains how the feature that's best adapted to survive reproduces more... you know what? If you can't understand a video made so little kids can understand it, then that's your problem. Seriously, the amount of bovine excrement you're coming out with (Clearly due to a lack of willingness to research, and a mahoosive lack of understanding) is unbelievable.
And I said answer the questions. Don't prance around them. Tell me how the evidence I mentioned that clearly points towards evolution, in reality, points towards creation.
Edit: As for "breeding animals for a long time", and "Seen nothing like what's in the video", yes, actually, we have. With virtually ever single domesticated animal. Do you think dogs were always like they were? No, they started from domesticated wolves. Do you think house cats were always as they were? Nope. Cows? Nope. Sheep? Nope. All were very different before we changed them into what they are now.
Last edited by Alunyel; 18th July 2009 at 05:04 AM.
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18th July 2009, 04:54 AM
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Reps: 5,570,983,808,792 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by corvus_corax Would LOVE an actual link (besides the blogspot pic link) that actually verifies the behavior you are describing.
That would rock SO MUCH
Sure.  Orangutan from Borneo photographed using a spear tool to fish Primatology.net |
18th July 2009, 04:56 AM
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Reps: 6,155,096,027,645,786 (power: 6,155,096,027,658) | | Originally Posted by Alunyel
Alright, that's just insanely cool
To heck with the debate on this thread, this piece of news is COOL AS HECK!!
TYVM
ETA- So , according to this article, Sumatran Orangs show evidence of culture? Sweetness. Again, tyvm.
__________________ "And yes, to prove evolution is wrong does not mean creation is right. But, the goal is just that, to prove evolution is wrong. Nothing else."
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Celebrating your own brain, is kinda a gay! as far as i am concerned the brain is a paraisite! a tapeworm!
-Lillen
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18th July 2009, 05:08 AM
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Reps: 5,570,983,808,792 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by corvus_corax Alright, that's just insanely cool
To heck with the debate on this thread, this piece of news is COOL AS HECK!!
TYVM
ETA- So , according to this article, Sumatran Orangs show evidence of culture? Sweetness. Again, tyvm.
'Sall good.
Great Apes are a lot more intelligent and social creatures than many people give them credit for. |
18th July 2009, 05:09 AM
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Reps: 6,155,096,027,645,786 (power: 6,155,096,027,658) | | Originally Posted by MarkT Don't listen to that guy. He misunderstands the whole argument. He makes wild assumptions about changes accumulating over time.
Hmmmmm
You don't even know the difference between an avian dinosaur and a non-avian dinosaur (and no, it's not just feathers....remember my post the other day?)
So we shouldn't listen to you. You misunderstand the difference between avian dinosaurs and non avian dinosaurs. You make wild assumptions about everything.
And you are wrong.
Go away.
Or be quiet and learn something.
__________________ "And yes, to prove evolution is wrong does not mean creation is right. But, the goal is just that, to prove evolution is wrong. Nothing else."
-juvenissun
Celebrating your own brain, is kinda a gay! as far as i am concerned the brain is a paraisite! a tapeworm!
-Lillen
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18th July 2009, 05:16 AM
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Reps: 129,231,470,913,481 (power: 129,231,470,922) | | e Bible also says that insects have four legs:
20 " 'All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. 21 There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. 22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. 23 But all other winged creatures that have four legs you are to detest.
That suggests to me that the Bible might not be the best source to learn about nature
Leviticus 11:20-42
20 "All winged insects that go upon all fours are an abomination to you. 21 Yet among the winged insects that go on all fours you may eat those which have legs above their feet, with which to leap on the earth. 22 Of them you may eat: the locust according to its kind, the bald locust according to its kind, the cricket according to its kind, and the grasshopper according to its kind. 23 But all other winged insects which have four feet are an abomination to you.
Well, the winged insects that have four feet and two legs above their feet for hopping can be eaten. But all other winged insects which have four feet are an abomination. I don't know which winged insects have four feet - flies? |
18th July 2009, 08:51 AM
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Reps: 273,058,831,624,843,168 (power: 273,058,831,624,865) | | Originally Posted by MarkT You might say they are a kind of dog. But then again it might be more accurate to say wolves and dogs belong to the same kind.
In other words, wolves and dogs share a common ancestor. Originally Posted by MarkT A kind of cat?
What about cats, hyenas, and dogs? They are as similar to each other as domestic cats are to lions, and dogs are to wolves. Originally Posted by MarkT No. Birds fly. Reptiles crawl on their bellies.
So bats and locusts are birds? T. Rex wasn't a reptile? Originally Posted by MarkT I don't think so.
Why not? The only difference is that reptiles are hardened versions of amphibians, just as domesticated cats are smaller versions of larger cats. Originally Posted by MarkT No.
Why not? Their pulmonary and locomotive systems are all found in fish ( mudskippers, Devonian lungish, Axolotl, and elbowed anglerfish, anyone?).
There are many species of fish which can, to varying degrees, walk on land and breathe air. Why aren't amphibians fish? There are little to no characteristics that distinguish them.
In modern taxonomy, amphibians are the descendants of those tetrapods which never evolved into amniotes. Originally Posted by MarkT They're not similar at all.
Actually, they are. A is similar to B is similar to C is similar to D is similar to E. According to your logic, if A is in group X, then so too is B (since they're similar). But this necessarily implies that A and E are also in the same group, even though they're not obviously similar.
So where is the line drawn? You can find smooth transitions all over the place, and these just so happen to coincide with modern cladistics. Go figure. Originally Posted by MarkT Aside from the physical differences? Our spirit. We have intelligence and abilities.
So do a plethora of other, non-human species. And what is this 'spirit'? Can you show it exists, or is it just another nebulous concept dreamt up by the ill-informed? Y'know, like Thor for thunder, Odin for lightning, and so on. Originally Posted by MarkT Most people believed in some god or gods but I guess an atheist by definition didn't believe in God. But most cultures have a creation story.
You didn't answer my question. You said that atheists must believe in the theory of common descent, but there have been atheists long before the theory was first formulated. What, then, did they believe? They obviously weren't Creationists, since they don't believe in Gods. Originally Posted by MarkT There are many who bear the name of being alive but they are dead. Don't be deceived by the majority whether they call themselves Christians or scientists or whatever.
Ah, so they're not True Christians™. And here I thought one's Christianity was determined by one's faith in the resurrection and salvation of Jesus Christ.
Tell me, can you show us where the Bible requires a person to have a particular belief with regards to the origin of life and biodiversity?
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18th July 2009, 08:54 AM
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Reps: 273,058,831,624,843,168 (power: 273,058,831,624,865) | | Originally Posted by MarkT Leviticus 11:20-42
20 "All winged insects that go upon all fours are an abomination to you. 21 Yet among the winged insects that go on all fours you may eat those which have legs above their feet, with which to leap on the earth. 22 Of them you may eat: the locust according to its kind, the bald locust according to its kind, the cricket according to its kind, and the grasshopper according to its kind. 23 But all other winged insects which have four feet are an abomination to you.
Well, the winged insects that have four feet and two legs above their feet for hopping can be eaten. But all other winged insects which have four feet are an abomination. I don't know which winged insects have four feet - flies? 
Looks like six to me.
All insects, winged or not, have six legs. And winged insects still walk about on ALL SIX LEGS:
__________________ "I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
"A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone."
- Charles Darwin
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."
- Christopher Hitchens
"Protecting the sanctity of marriage against people who want to get married"
- Anonymous
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