Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (Christians Only) > Theology (Christian Only) > General Theology > Hamartiology
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

Hamartiology The forum to discuss the doctrine of sin, the origin of sin and how sin entered into the world.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 25th August 2009, 02:22 PM
trentlogain2's Avatar
a social experiment

27 Gender: Male Faith: Christian Member For 3 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 14th October 2008
Posts: 5,069
Blessings: 6,077,732
Reps: 278,591,093,192,482,944 (power: 278,591,093,192,491)
trentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond repute
trentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond reputetrentlogain2 has a reputation beyond repute
Yes. Killing and murder is immoral. It doesn't make a difference if it's in self-defense or if someone is a soldier. It's wrong.

This is a forum about sin, is it not?
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #12  
Old 2nd September 2009, 12:05 AM
Newbie

Gender: Male Faith: Catholic Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 1st September 2009
Posts: 6
Blessings: 61,138
Reps: 6,910,486,938 (power: 0)
Placer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond repute
Placer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond reputePlacer9 has a reputation beyond repute
Do you believe murder is immoral?
Yes. Beyond classification of human morality, we are in the category of Divine morals.

Some sins are intrinsically evil and this is one. We are servants of God, not deciders of destiny. God has a plan for each of us and murder short circuits God's plans as well has removes the potential for other duties that servant would otherwise render.

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2nd September 2009, 12:24 AM
sungaunga's Avatar
Junior Member

31 Gender: Male Faith: Christian Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 11th July 2009
Posts: 885
Blessings: 133,138
My Mood Blessed
Reps: 36,661,185,937,442,840 (power: 36,661,185,937,445)
sungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond repute
sungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond reputesungaunga has a reputation beyond repute
It's not important what I believe. Scriptures tells us murder is sin. It goes as far as to tell us even hating someone is murder. And you forgot some important attributes of God.

Not only is he all Loving, he is all Just all Righteous and all Holy. He's not a prisoner of just one of his attributes. God always always acts in a way that is consistent with his full attributes. He will be glorified in his Holy Hatred as well as Loving Mercy. Everything he does is Just. Better yet, "Just" is the definition of what he does. And God hates all who does iniquity. O sure he is patiently surpressing his final Holy Wrath. But that day will come when all evil is wiped out.

I quote pastor MacArthur

Let me say it another way. Because God loves does not mean that His love is separated from His other attributes. It does not mean that that love exists, as it were, in isolation from everything else as if it was untouched, unmodified and unmixed and unaffected by holiness, wrath, righteousness, judgment and every other attribute. God is neither the jailor nor is He the prisoner of any of His attributes. Each of them acts not independently but in perfect harmony with all the others. If God then is to glorify Himself, He must put all of His attributes on display. And whatever His love accomplishes can in no way obliterate His other attributes. Whatever His mercy and grace and kindness and goodness and tender-heartedness achieved cannot obliterate what will be made manifest by His hatred, His anger, His wrath, His vengeance and His justice. All of God's attributes have a place in the demonstration that He carries out through the purposes of creation

If you understand this one great surpassing truth about God, it's going to answer all those difficult questions that I posed at the beginning. If you only understand this, you're on the way and that is the simple truth although it is profoundly revealed and much of it unknown to us...the simple truth is God does whatever manifests the fullness of His glory. Whatever puts His glory on display and His glory is the sum of all of His attributes. God cannot in doing one thing cancel out something else. God's glory is the issue
There are over 6 sermons on the Love of God check it out it will greatly edify you
The Love of God, Part 4 :: Grace to You you can download the audio.
__________________
.
"If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true." Spurgeon
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 1st October 2009, 10:30 AM
See name above

25 Gender: Male Faith: Catholic Party: US-Democrat Country: United States Member For 3 Years
 
Join Date: 30th June 2008
Posts: 748
Blessings: 61,630
Reps: 320,704,812,997,701 (power: 320,704,813,001)
AmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond repute
AmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond reputeAmericanCatholic has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by trentlogain2 View Post
Yes. Killing and murder is immoral. It doesn't make a difference if it's in self-defense or if someone is a soldier. It's wrong.

This is a forum about sin, is it not?
Can a perfectly good, all-powerful God command an immoral act to be done?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 6th January 2010, 02:06 PM
Newbie

Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 21st July 2009
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 375
Blessings: 69,683
My Mood Amazed
Reps: 1,577,430,790,189,994 (power: 1,577,430,790,192)
LST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond repute
LST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by trentlogain2 View Post
Yes. Killing and murder is immoral. It doesn't make a difference if it's in self-defense or if someone is a soldier. It's wrong.
So a man breaks down your door at midnight and while pointing a handgun at you says he is going to first kill you then he is going to "have his way" with your wife and little daughter and then he is going to kill them so you lunge for the gun and in the struggle the gun goes off killing him. On judgment day God is going to hold you accountable for his death? I'm glad I don't serve your god.

Soldiers are not murderers either.

LST
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 4th February 2011, 12:49 PM
JCFantasy23's Avatar
It's amazing what we take for granted
Angels Team

31 Gender: Female Faith: Methodist Country: United States Member For 3 Years Angels Team Pets Team Prayer Team Commander
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 1st July 2008
Location: Lakeland, FL
Posts: 15,097
Blessings: 7,783,033,691
My Mood Praising
Blog Entries: 22
Reps: 992,810,695,052,380,928 (power: 992,810,695,052,399)
JCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond repute
JCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond reputeJCFantasy23 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Dirk Gently View Post


So here's the first one of my questions;

Do you believe murder is immoral?


.
Yes, murder is completely immoral.

For one thing, it derives those of life. They were given life for a reason and it is not up to us to play God and intervene with that and the path they should have taken. Also, by murder we cause grief to the surrounding friends and relatives, and a Christian should better the lives of those around them, not cause agonizing pain. Most murders are committed for no good reason as well, many from a sinful viewpoint - greed, jealousy, anger, and revenge - all warned against repeatably in the bible.
__________________
CF Angel Team ~*~ Prayer Team ~*~ Senior Moderator


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"If I can laugh, I can live." - Christopher Reeve
"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
"There is no joy in the soul that has forgotten what God prizes." - Oswald Chambers
Please pray for the soul of my recently departed friend, John Gugie, Nov. 2, 2011
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 13th February 2011, 05:00 PM
caprice09's Avatar
Private Study Scholar

Gender: Male Married Faith: Non-Denominational Country: United States Member For 1 Years
 
Join Date: 6th February 2011
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 11
Blessings: 7,685
My Mood Amazed
Reps: 10 (power: 0)
caprice09 is on a distinguished road
Kudos

Right on, American Gothic and LST.

God never said you cannot defend yourself, or even better yet, act in defense of others (which is the works of salvation and judgment on His people's behalf).

Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake. Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is their God? let him be known among the heathen in our sight by the revenging of the blood of thy servants which is shed. Let the sighing of the prisoner come before thee; according to the greatness of thy power preserve thou those that are appointed to die;
(Psa 79:9-11)

So the heathen shall fear the name of the LORD, and all the kings of the earth thy glory. When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory. He will regard the prayer of the destitute, and not despise their prayer. This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD. For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the LORD behold the earth; To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death;
(Psa 102:15-20)


God Himself assembled armies for the purposes of judgment (such as upon the Land of Canaan or the Philistines). He assembled the armies into ranks for the purposes of defending the country (just as a single man might protect His home).

When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
(Luk 11:21)

No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
(Mar 3:27)

Someone earlier said that hatred is murder unto God...Yes, and that is the deciding factor of murder (premeditation and/or malice in his heart). The only exemption even in the law is concerning what we now call manslaughter (doing something careless and stupid which resulted in the harm or death of another).
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 16th February 2011, 01:03 AM
Handmaid for Jesus's Avatar
You can't steal my joy

Gender: Female Faith: Protestant Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 1 Years Watchman
 
Join Date: 19th December 2010
Location: enroute
Posts: 1,425
Blessings: 82,838,591
My Mood Happy
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,780)
Handmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond repute
Handmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond reputeHandmaid for Jesus has a reputation beyond repute
Jesus said even vengeful anger is murder, so yes I believe murder is sin and immoral. But, in a kill or be killed situation, such as war and self defense, and I would include accidental killing in this too cause accidents can happen, I think God those are not immoral.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 22nd February 2011, 11:52 AM
oneofchrists's Avatar
Give Me Stength Lord

58 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Party: CA-Conservatives Country: Canada Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 9th September 2009
Location: Intervale, New Brunswick Canada
Posts: 700
Blessings: 1,638,418
My Mood Blessed
Reps: 11,944,695,703,516,388 (power: 11,944,695,703,519)
oneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond repute
oneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond reputeoneofchrists has a reputation beyond repute
What does the 6th Commandment tell us????
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 22nd February 2011, 12:28 PM
Newbie

Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 21st July 2009
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 375
Blessings: 69,683
My Mood Amazed
Reps: 1,577,430,790,189,994 (power: 1,577,430,790,192)
LST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond repute
LST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond reputeLST 1154 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by oneofchrists View Post
What does the 6th Commandment tell us????
Ex 20:13 "You shall not murder." Now we need a definition. "Murder: "The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice." So if a man aims a loaded firearm at a police officer with the intention to kill the officer, but before he gets a chance to pull the trigger the officer shoots and kills the man the officer is not guilty of murder. Now had the man shot and killed the officer the man would be guilty of murder.


If you are an OT law keeper and you have convinced yourself that keeping the laws of the OT is the way of righteousness and the way to God's heart, then you must keep all 613 of them not just 10. You cannot do it by the way. No one could (except Jesus) and no one can, and now that the new covenant came along we now have 237 more, so now you must keep all 850 of them 100% of the time.

It will be interesting how you will reconcile Lev 11:7 "And the pig....is unclean for you" with Acts 10:15 "And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call unclean." So are you going to have that sausage and egg McMuffin tomorrow morning or is it a sin to eat it?

LST
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
death, heaven, hell, murder, sin


Return to Hamartiology

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:56 AM.