| One Bread, One Body - Catholic A forum open to Christians to discuss various Catholic beliefs and issues. |  | | 
7th July 2009, 08:09 PM
|  | Goodbye . . . I take my leave . . . . .
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Reps: 872,540,922,689,189,376 (power: 872,540,922,689,204) | | ....I saw a paragraph in it: "67. In the face of the unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth. One also senses the urgent need to find innovative ways of implementing the principle of the responsibility to protect[146] and of giving poorer nations an effective voice in shared decision-making. This seems necessary in order to arrive at a political, juridical and economic order which can increase and give direction to international cooperation for the development of all peoples in solidarity. To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need of a true world political authority, as my predecessor Blessed John XXIII indicated some years ago. Such an authority would need to be regulated by law, to observe consistently the principles of subsidiarity and solidarity, to seek to establish the common good[147], and to make a commitment to securing authentic integral human development inspired by the values of charity in truth. Furthermore, such an authority would need to be universally recognized and to be vested with the effective power to ensure security for all, regard for justice, and respect for rights[148]. Obviously it would have to have the authority to ensure compliance with its decisions from all parties, and also with the coordinated measures adopted in various international forums. Without this, despite the great progress accomplished in various sectors, international law would risk being conditioned by the balance of power among the strongest nations. The integral development of peoples and international cooperation require the establishment of a greater degree of international ordering, marked by subsidiarity, for the management of globalization[149]. They also require the construction of a social order that at last conforms to the moral order, to the interconnection between moral and social spheres, and to the link between politics and the economic and civil spheres, as envisaged by the Charter of the United Nations."
I'm sorry, but this seems a little too much like advocating a New World Order or "One World Gov't." I'm not too fond of the encyclical to say the least....if this is what his Holiness is advocating...
__________________ "And Thou, O Lord, art a God of compassion, and merciful, patient, and of much mercy, and true."
— Psalm 85, 15.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"We do not really need a religion that is right where we are right. What we need is a religion that is right where we are wrong."
— G.K. Chesterton Kindly keep me in your rosary intentions and prayers; especially that I may obtain employment . . . If you'd like to remain in contact with me: See Brikkz. | 
7th July 2009, 08:31 PM
| | Memento mori 20 
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Reps: 413,915,184,494,853,568 (power: 413,915,184,494,861) | | Originally Posted by St. Pius X ....I saw a paragraph in it:
I'm sorry, but this seems a little too much like advocating a New World Order or "One World Gov't." I'm not too fond of the encyclical to say the least....if this is what his Holiness is advocating...
I don't know, I see all good ideas there: social justice on the international scale, a world political authority conformed to moral authority, environmental cooperation, etc. I don't see anything alarming or unprecedented, really.
__________________ "I assert that the hundreds of thousands of abortions performed in America each year are a disgrace to civilization."
(Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood) | 
8th July 2009, 08:48 AM
|  | Still crazy after all these years ! 56 
| | Join Date: 28th June 2005 Location: Work
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Reps: 23,195,716,096,923,752 (power: 23,195,716,096,933) | | | I have read just a little, but I know that it will take 2 or 3 reads to really flesh it all out. So far, I love all I'm seeing!
__________________ The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity—greedy, dishonest, adulterous—or even like this tax collector. (Lk 18:11) For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths. (2 Tim 4:3-4) No one heals himself by wounding another." St. John Chrysostom Be Still and Know that I Am God! Ps 46:10 | 
9th July 2009, 03:12 AM
|  | Goodbye . . . I take my leave . . . . .
 | | Join Date: 14th January 2006
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Reps: 872,540,922,689,189,376 (power: 872,540,922,689,204) | | | What are you talking about? I merely, said, it appears as if the Pope were advocating one world gov't. in portion of this Encyclical; I was intimating that with the implicit notion that I hope he wasn't and that it was a misperception on my part. I recognize that I may be wrong. However, what does this have to with your "Cafeteria [Catholicism]?"
On a further note: Is the Pope advocating a "One-World-Government?"
__________________ "And Thou, O Lord, art a God of compassion, and merciful, patient, and of much mercy, and true."
— Psalm 85, 15.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"We do not really need a religion that is right where we are right. What we need is a religion that is right where we are wrong."
— G.K. Chesterton Kindly keep me in your rosary intentions and prayers; especially that I may obtain employment . . . If you'd like to remain in contact with me: See Brikkz. | 
9th July 2009, 01:22 PM
|  | Totus Tuus

| | Join Date: 28th June 2007
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Reps: 240,868,224,634,014,624 (power: 240,868,224,634,037) | | | I think (and hope) that the Pope is not advocating a one world government and that is a misunderstanding??
(maybe we could discuss this..)
__________________ "I wish, oh Jesus, that my voice could reach to the ends of the world, to call all sinners and tell them to enter into Thy Heart....Oh, if only all sinners would come to Thy Heart!... Come! Come sinners, do not be afraid! The sword of Justice cannot reach you Here!" ~St Gemma Galgani "Love Our Lady and make her loved; always recite the Rosary and recite it as often as possible". ~St Padre Pio | 
9th July 2009, 01:36 PM
|  | Totus Tuus

| | Join Date: 28th June 2007
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what about this? Editorial: Pope's New Encyclical Speaks Against, not for One-World Government and New World Order
I think some people (like the media) are really just taking the quote out of context and misunderstanding it. It needs to be interpreted together with the rest of the encyclical and what Pope Benedict said in the past as well.
__________________ "I wish, oh Jesus, that my voice could reach to the ends of the world, to call all sinners and tell them to enter into Thy Heart....Oh, if only all sinners would come to Thy Heart!... Come! Come sinners, do not be afraid! The sword of Justice cannot reach you Here!" ~St Gemma Galgani "Love Our Lady and make her loved; always recite the Rosary and recite it as often as possible". ~St Padre Pio | 
9th July 2009, 02:20 PM
|  | Pro Deo et Patria 32 
| | Join Date: 12th April 2002
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Reps: 134,994,872,109,876,352 (power: 134,994,872,109,893) | | The Pope's encyclical cannot be read apart from his other writings and thought on subsidiarity. Sorry, but no One World Government on the Pope's agenda. His concern is managing globalization to keep it focused on the value of the individual. He's not berating Capitalists, nor is he lauding Socialists, he's trying to keep the world focused on the value of the individual when it is moving further away from it by limiting births and promoting abortions, both evils which he talks about in Caritas in veritate. Hence the principle of subsidiarity is particularly well-suited to managing globalization and directing it towards authentic human development. In order not to produce a dangerous universal power of a tyrannical nature, the governance of globalization must be marked by subsidiarity, articulated into several layers and involving different levels that can work together. Globalization certainly requires authority, insofar as it poses the problem of a global common good that needs to be pursued. This authority, however, must be organized in a subsidiary and stratified way[138], if it is not to infringe upon freedom and if it is to yield effective results in practice.
58. The principle of subsidiarity must remain closely linked to the principle of solidarity and vice versa, since the former without the latter gives way to social privatism, while the latter without the former gives way to paternalist social assistance that is demeaning to those in need.
See also the following from Pope Pius XI: 116. Yet let no one think that all the socialist groups or factions that are not communist have, without exception, recovered their senses to this extent either in fact or in name. For the most part they do not reject the class struggle or the abolition of ownership, but only in some degree modify them. Now if these false principles are modified and to some extent erased from the program, the question arises, or rather is raised without warrant by some, whether the principles of Christian truth cannot perhaps be also modified to some degree and be tempered so as to meet Socialism half-way and, as it were, by a middle course, come to agreement with it. There are some allured by the foolish hope that socialists in this way will be drawn to us. A vain hope! Those who want to be apostles among socialists ought to profess Christian truth whole and entire, openly and sincerely, and not connive at error in any way. If they truly wish to be heralds of the Gospel, let them above all strive to show to socialists that socialist claims, so far as they are just, are far more strongly supported by the principles of Christian faith and much more effectively promoted through the power of Christian charity. 117. But what if Socialism has really been so tempered and modified as to the class struggle and private ownership that there is in it no longer anything to be censured on these points? Has it thereby renounced its contradictory nature to the Christian religion? This is the question that holds many minds in suspense. And numerous are the Catholics who, although they clearly understand that Christian principles can never be abandoned or diminished seem to turn their eyes to the Holy See and earnestly beseech Us to decide whether this form of Socialism has so far recovered from false doctrines that it can be accepted without the sacrifice of any Christian principle and in a certain sense be baptized. That We, in keeping with Our fatherly solicitude, may answer their petitions, We make this pronouncement: Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth. Pius XI, Encyclical Letter Quadragesimo anno, on reconstruction of the social order
__________________ When you encounter difficulties and contradictions, do not try to break them, but bend them with gentleness and time.
---Saint Francis de Sales
Last edited by isshinwhat; 9th July 2009 at 02:30 PM.
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9th July 2009, 09:54 PM
|  | Totus Tuus

| | Join Date: 28th June 2007
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Reps: 240,868,224,634,014,624 (power: 240,868,224,634,037) | | His concern is managing globalization to keep it focused on the value of the individual. He's not berating Capitalists, nor is he lauding Socialists, he's trying to keep the world focused on the value of the individual when it is moving further away from it by limiting births and promoting abortions, both evils which he talks about in Caritas in veritate.
hmm that makes sense and seems accurate...
__________________ "I wish, oh Jesus, that my voice could reach to the ends of the world, to call all sinners and tell them to enter into Thy Heart....Oh, if only all sinners would come to Thy Heart!... Come! Come sinners, do not be afraid! The sword of Justice cannot reach you Here!" ~St Gemma Galgani "Love Our Lady and make her loved; always recite the Rosary and recite it as often as possible". ~St Padre Pio | 
9th July 2009, 11:18 PM
|  | Regular Member
 | | Join Date: 30th May 2005 Location: Near Chicago
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Reps: 1,533,406,461 (power: 1,533,413) | | | This reminds me of one of my all time favorite quotes. Its from a Brazilian Catholic Bishop by the name of Dom Helder Camara. “When I fed the poor they called me a saint. When I asked why there were so many poor people that are hungry they called me a communist” Greed and selfishness dominate a lot of humanity. There will always be gifted ,talented, fortunate people and nations that work hard and deserve to be rewarded and have more than others. Its when some of these people and nations have absolutely no concern for “the least of these” where it becomes a big problem. I believe that is what the Pope is trying to convey. Peace Keith
__________________ There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Sinners and Hypocrites. I thank the Lord I can be counted amongst the Sinners. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Author unknown | 
10th July 2009, 01:57 PM
|  | Dona Quixote
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Reps: 409,424,926,118,870,016 (power: 409,424,926,118,891) | | Sojourners, the progressive ecumenical organization headed by Rev. Jim Wallace, a Methodist minister, also had great things to say about Pope Benedict's latest encyclical.
See "Pope Benedict Gets It Right" by Brian McLaren: Pope Benedict Gets It Right - Brian McLaren - God’s Politics Blog
This article emphasizes all those things that the other articles I've read about the encylical have completely ignored. And so yes, Caritas in Veritate discusses much more than the evils of population control, despite the efforts of conservative journalists to leave out the rest of the story.
__________________ "The world is wide, and I will not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum."
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