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16th July 2009, 10:25 PM
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Reps: 70,378,687,404 (power: 70,378,693) | | | My brother, I strongly,... very strongly disagree with what you believe is true conservatism. What you believe is true conservatism concerning foreign policy is instead, what I call Isolationism.
If America would have stayed on the path of what you believe and define true conservatism is, then we would not have fought in either WWI, WWII, and we would not have been able to stand up against the USSR and the Warsaw Pact nations. If we would have followed as a nation what you believe true conservatism is, then I can guarantee you that, in all probability, the freedoms and liberty we have today as Americans would simply not be available for the United States of America.
I believe, that if America would have followed the Isolationist policy that you believe is true conservatism, that the odds are extremely high that the United States of America would not even still exist.
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16th July 2009, 10:55 PM
|  | Veritas Liberabit Vos
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Reps: 63,099,894,449,238,512 (power: 63,099,894,449,246) | | Originally Posted by sealacamp  Although I certainly don't agree with the republican party on many issues I can't agree with your statement either. Perhaps you should look a little closer.
Dems Anti-family
Anti-God (despite what some may say)
Pro government
Pro taxation to the detriment of the people
Pro government hand outs (our money)
Pro homosexual
And shoving an agenda down the throats of the people that most do not want.
Sealacamp
I think your assesment is quite accurate.
2010 should be very interesting. Washington DC power seems to cycle back and forth between parties. I think Republicans are taking baby steps toward finally standing up for fundamental conservative values.
The Obama mystique is slowly eroding, the reality of his Socialist anti-free enterprise agenda is coming to the fore.
It's happening faster than I thought would be possible, only 7 months into his administration.
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16th July 2009, 11:14 PM
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Reps: 22,818,612,937,454,916 (power: 22,818,612,937,465) | | Originally Posted by Vambram My brother, I strongly,... very strongly disagree with what you believe is true conservatism. What you believe is true conservatism concerning foreign policy is instead, what I call Isolationism.
If America would have stayed on the path of what you believe and define true conservatism is, then we would not have fought in either WWI, WWII, and we would not have been able to stand up against the USSR and the Warsaw Pact nations. If we would have followed as a nation what you believe true conservatism is, then I can guarantee you that, in all probability, the freedoms and liberty we have today as Americans would simply not be available for the United States of America.
I believe, that if America would have followed the Isolationist policy that you believe is true conservatism, that the odds are extremely high that the United States of America would not even still exist.
I agree....
...and I also agree with US support of Israel.
There are many times (in my dreams) I would just love it if the US could just withdraw from the world...but that is simply not a realistic option...
....and if that makes me a neocon....well then I'll just set that on the shelf next to all the other labels that have been tossed out there... 
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16th July 2009, 11:25 PM
| | Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night
  
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Reps: 16,368,801,345,739 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Vambram My brother, I strongly,... very strongly disagree with what you believe is true conservatism. What you believe is true conservatism concerning foreign policy is instead, what I call Isolationism.
If America would have stayed on the path of what you believe and define true conservatism is, then we would not have fought in either WWI, WWII, and we would not have been able to stand up against the USSR and the Warsaw Pact nations. If we would have followed as a nation what you believe true conservatism is, then I can guarantee you that, in all probability, the freedoms and liberty we have today as Americans would simply not be available for the United States of America.
I believe, that if America would have followed the Isolationist policy that you believe is true conservatism, that the odds are extremely high that the United States of America would not even still exist.
Vambram bro, i am not the least bit surprised we somewhat may disagree here lol... BUT... be that as it may whether we call it conservatism or isolationist, it made this nation great. I have a feeling that those who oppose conservatism created the term isolationist as a buzzword to scare the crap outta people
Thomas Payne, author of "Common Sence", George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe who gave us the Monroe Doctrine, Woodrow Wilsons 1st term, all these men were great conservatives who held what we now call in such a propagandistic way 'isolationist' policy.
We were called isolationists when we opposed NAFTA, yet NAFTA was passed, and so were our manufacturing jobs, from the usa to mexico.
Conservatism protects the american, it protected America, now the SPP threatens us even further
Neoconservatism began about 1920... heres a list of wars from that time to now... List of wars involving the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Banana Wars: Mexican Expedition, 1916 - 1917 World War I, 1917 – 1918 (time span of U.S. involvement) Russian Revolution, 1918-1920 (time span of U.S. involvement) Yangtze Patrol, 1922-1927 World War II, 1941 – 1945 (time span of U.S. involvement) United States Intervention in Greek Election, 1947-1949 Korean War, 1950 - 1953 Operation PBFORTUNE, Guatemala, 1952 Operation Ajax, US overthrow of Iranian Government, 1953 Operation PBSUCCESS, Guatemala, 1954 Operation Blue Bat, Lebanon, 1958 Bay of Pigs Invasion, Cuba, 1961 Operation Powerpack, Dominican Republic, 1965 - 1966 United States Intervention at Panama Canal, 1958 Vietnam War, 1962 - 1973 (time span of United States involvement) United States Intervention at Panama Canal, 1964 United States Overthrow of Chilean Government, 1964 Operation Eagle Claw, Iran hostage crisis, 1980 First Gulf of Sidra Incident, Libya, 1981 Contra War, El Salvador, 1981-1990 Occupation of Beirut, Lebanon, 1982-1984 Invasion of Grenada, Grenada, 1983-1984 Operation El Dorado Canyon, Libya, 1986 Iran–Iraq War, 1987 - 1989 Operation Just Cause, Panama 1989 - 1990 Second Gulf of Sidra Incident, Libya, 1989 Persian Gulf War, Iraq, 1991 Somali Civil War, 1992 - 1994 Yugoslav wars, 1994 - 1999 21st Century
So if we had practiced a truly conservative 'isolationest' economic policy since 1910 or so to now, and conservative or 'isolationest' foreign policy, how much money do you think we would have in our pockets that wouldnt have been spent on war? How many jobs would we still have here if we had NOT passed nafta and held to good conservative economic policies?  |
16th July 2009, 11:37 PM
| | Senior Member
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Reps: 70,378,687,404 (power: 70,378,693) | | So if we had practiced a truly conservative 'isolationest' economic policy since 1910 or so to now, and conservative or 'isolationest' foreign policy,how much money do you think we would have in our pockets that wouldnt have been spent on war?
Some values are far more important than money. I firmly believe liberty and freedom does not come free. You know that as well as I do, my brother. Also, do you believe that that the United States of America should not have fought in either WWI, or WWII? that the USA should not have opposed the communist empire of the USSR? that we would truly be better off if we would have basically ignored most of the rest of the world? Do you believe that the USA would still exist as a free nation if we would have done so? How many jobs would we still have here if we had NOT passed nafta and held to good conservative economic policies?
I agree that NAFTA is a bad idea. Also, the USA's failure at all levels as a nation to remain true to good conservative economic policies is the major reasons for almost all of the economic problems that we have in America.
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16th July 2009, 11:50 PM
| | Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night
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Reps: 16,368,801,345,739 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Vambram Some values are far more important than money. I firmly believe liberty and freedom does not come free. You know that as well as I do, my brother. Also, do you believe that that the United States of America should not have fought in either WWI, or WWII? that the USA should not have opposed the communist empire of the USSR? that we would truly be better off if we would have basically ignored most of the rest of the world? Do you believe that the USA would still exist as a free nation if we would have done so?
Vambram bro, in a nutshell IF our lives and freedom are truly at stake, sure fight your butt off, i know i will. On the other hand we go to war with other nations, take their natural resources and claim that it was to protect our freedom and i just dont buy it. Iraq had nothing to do with our freedom, neither did afghanistan, vietnam, korea, on down the line... the list above shows us the wars of the last century... HOW MANY were really a threat to our freedom? I submit not more than 5-6 at the most
I frankly believe 'our freedom is at stake' is a much overused fear mongering term.
Theres no doubt we should have fought ww2, we were attacked... I agree that NAFTA is a bad idea. Also, the USA's failure at all levels as a nation to remain true to good conservative economic policies is the major reasons for almost all of the economic problems that we have in America.
Im so glad we agree here lol  
Isolationism would serve us better for sure here, and this only comes from real conservatism |
16th July 2009, 11:52 PM
| | Senior Member
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Reps: 70,378,687,404 (power: 70,378,693) | | | I'm glad that you agree about WWII.
But, I still have not seen an answer from you regarding whether or not the USA would have been able to still exist as the USA that we both love, if we did not form alliances and be the world leader in opposing the USSR and the Warsaw Pact nations.
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"If you were the only one needing Salvation from Sin, Jesus still would have died for your salvation." |
16th July 2009, 11:59 PM
| | Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night
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Reps: 16,368,801,345,739 (power: 0) | | | I beleive we would be much greater... bro we aint all that great right now. When Russia was installing nukes in Cuba, JFK didnt flinch, and he didnt rely on entangling alliances to help us. We emerged from ww2 as the most powerful nation on earth, but foreign entanglements of all sorts, wars pacts etc, and nonprotectionist economic policies have ruined us. I dont know if we could ever even work out of this hole... we are only supported artificilally at the moment as it is.
Yes bro, all that money back in the coffers??? i sure believe we would be better off than we are now |
17th July 2009, 12:02 AM
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Reps: 70,378,687,404 (power: 70,378,693) | | | I strongly disagree.
I strongly believe that if the USA had not done what was necessary to oppose the USSR and the Warsaw Pact nations, that communism would be THE dominant political force across the world, and that the USA would be much, much worse off as a nation than we are now.
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Last edited by Vambram; 17th July 2009 at 12:02 AM.
Reason: correction of a sentence.
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17th July 2009, 12:52 AM
| | Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night
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Reps: 16,368,801,345,739 (power: 0) | | | Vambram, which wars bro, do you think saved us from the warsaw pact? Honest question | | |
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